Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo

[Burb8145]

Tonight's 355 just left Pontiac, so it appears that track got repaired pretty fast.


According to this article more service will resume tomorrow.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loc ... ay-travel/

[Saturnalia]

Looks like both videos got taken down…

[Buster Manning]

Yes, trains are running again.....355 has the Charter Wire cars on the rear......354 is running push/pull....full schedule tomorrow......and no, 355 wasn't running track speed when it went up the ramp

[David Collins]

I would think if it was running at full speed, the damage would be much, much worse.

[DaveO]

see from tv news that the amfleet food and at least 3 horizon coaches were set on the ground. considering chicago is already having a hard time getting trainsets out, that is bad news.

[MikeB89]

Have a linky to the video of the accident?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1665537 ... 671425156/

I watched this video and talk about deer in the headlights moment. I'm impressed with the air that locomotive got. I mean that looks to be about 20 feet in the air or so. I can't believe this trains derailment isn't worse. The fact the locomotive remained upright as well as the other cars. Its not just that either, from the photos I've seen that Siemens Charger didn't take a ton of damage. The nose wasn't even flatened.

I've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.

[DaveO]

tightlock couplers worked

[Saturnalia]

I've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.

The biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.

This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.

[chapmaja]

I've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.

The biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.

This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.

There are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed. Do we know if the 1-800 number was ever called and if so, what was the response from Amtrak to the person who called? Unfortunately there have been cases where the railroad has told someone one thing, but that was not based on the full story and as a result, and incident happened or almost happened. (A family member was involved in one of those incidents, and someone was almost killed as a result.)

Was the train notified of the issue on the tracks or were they never notified? Was a call ever even made.

There is a reason the NTSB investigates this type incidents. It will be interesting to see what the investigation determines. I'm not saying the tow truck operator was blameless, but at the same time, were they given correct or incorrect information, was information never even shared? I'm sure the NTSB is already looking at the communication logs for all parties.

[MikeB89]

I've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.

The biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.

This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Something wasn't communicated properly. A good portion of the time things that happen like this is because of human error. Very seldomly does track circuitry and electronics cause accidents like this. I'm waiting to find out what more Amtrak has to say about this whole incident. I also wonder if the NTSB is going to get involved. Still the 1-800 number is what should've been done. So, in a sense I do put blame on the first responders. There is a big learning lesson here for first responders for this event.

[Saturnalia]

Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.

There are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed.

True, as you noted my conclusion is not yet confirmed by the evidence, and is only speculation based on what we know right now - and I should have clarified that. I too will be interested in what the relevant authorities have to say based on their investigation.

The rest of my points, as do yours, stand as they are.

[JBaxter]

The rumor floating around on the comments of those Facebook videos has it that a railroad was called but it might not have been Amtrak. Some say CSX was contacted instead, but again that is speculation at this point and like people said before it could have just taken too long to contact the train from dispatch even if the number was called properly

[MikeB89]

The rumor floating around on the comments of those Facebook videos has it that a railroad was called but it might not have been Amtrak. Some say CSX was contacted instead, but again that is speculation at this point and like people said before it could have just taken too long to contact the train from dispatch even if the number was called properly

That is speculation no doubt but its also possible. I wouldn't doubt the possibility of CSX being called as the Grand Rapids Sub isn't too far from this location. I'm not entirely sure about the time it gets dispatch to the train after the call. I know the times I've called for malfunctions the signal maintainer has showed up in less than 10 minutes. Then again GR sub isn't as busy as other lines. I imagine it wouldn't take too long to get the train to stop.

[Saturnalia]

I have some fairly good intel that the police called CSX instead of Amtrak, being that the same road also crosses the GR Sub. Sounds like the police were maybe approved to work on the basis that the GR Sub was Ok.

[chapmaja]

Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.

There are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed.

True, as you noted my conclusion is not yet confirmed by the evidence, and is only speculation based on what we know right now - and I should have clarified that. I too will be interested in what the relevant authorities have to say based on their investigation.

The rest of my points, as do yours, stand as they are.

I think we agree, this should not have happened. I thought I read somewhere the NTSB is investigating because there were injuries to crew members involved.

[Jetlink]

tightlock couplers worked

I was thinking the exact same thing. The trainset remaining coupled and upright certainly contributed to the minimization of casualties. Not to mention the crash worthiness standards of the equipment as well.

[justin_gram]

Yup, Berrien County 911 notified CSX it sounds like, not AMTK.
https://www.wsjm.com/2023/11/20/berrien ... m=facebook
And
https://www.wndu.com/2023/11/20/berrien ... bugfsa8kk9

[TSS]

The database was down so nobody knew what to do. Such a shame. For reasons exactly like this, the police dispatcher shouldn’t be using a database. The standard practice should be for the officer or caller on the scene to read the info on the blue sign. Eliminates errors like this.

[Jochs]

I didn't realize the rear unit was sitting on the siding at Three Oaks, but I did see the lead unit and cars set aside along US 12 yesterday.

Sounds like a data base was down in the 911 system allowing them to enter cross streets, and the 911 dispatcher called CSX by mistake. (CSX also crosses Lakeside Rd.)


I don't think anyone bothered calling the number on the crossing signal, at least not at first. This would have put the caller in direct communication with the operating railroad, Amtrak, not CSX.

"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#

[Jetlink]

"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#

Sounds all too familiar.