![Image](https://i.imgur.com/YuhjySZ.png)
According to this article more service will resume tomorrow.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/loc ... ay-travel/
I watched this video and talk about deer in the headlights moment. I'm impressed with the air that locomotive got. I mean that looks to be about 20 feet in the air or so. I can't believe this trains derailment isn't worse. The fact the locomotive remained upright as well as the other cars. Its not just that either, from the photos I've seen that Siemens Charger didn't take a ton of damage. The nose wasn't even flatened.
The biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.MikeB89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:03 amI've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
There are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed. Do we know if the 1-800 number was ever called and if so, what was the response from Amtrak to the person who called? Unfortunately there have been cases where the railroad has told someone one thing, but that was not based on the full story and as a result, and incident happened or almost happened. (A family member was involved in one of those incidents, and someone was almost killed as a result.)Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmThe biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.MikeB89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:03 amI've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Something wasn't communicated properly. A good portion of the time things that happen like this is because of human error. Very seldomly does track circuitry and electronics cause accidents like this. I'm waiting to find out what more Amtrak has to say about this whole incident. I also wonder if the NTSB is going to get involved. Still the 1-800 number is what should've been done. So, in a sense I do put blame on the first responders. There is a big learning lesson here for first responders for this event.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmThe biggest thing missed here with the 1-800 number is that simply calling it does not make it safe to foul the track. The big railroads especially, including Amtrak, have centralized emergency handling desks that have to forward the information to the correct dispatchers who then have to get the trains stopped. With Train #355 covering nearly two miles a minute, even if the police or tow truck called it can be a good 5-10 minutes before any impacted movements can be stopped.MikeB89 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:03 amI've heard more on the story that Amtrak was never contacted although police apparently said they were. I think there needs to be more education for people to use that 1-800# versus waiting on PD or other agencies to make the call. I'm not narking on anyone because I believe that tow truck driver and police were doing the best they could but in moments of tense situations decisions can be skipped.
This is (or should be) safety training 101 for first responders. The track is not safe until you are told by the railroad that all movements have been stopped and the track is protected. Had the police and tow truck driver kept clear, we'd probably be looking at one totaled vehicle and minor damage to the locomotive only. Instead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
True, as you noted my conclusion is not yet confirmed by the evidence, and is only speculation based on what we know right now - and I should have clarified that. I too will be interested in what the relevant authorities have to say based on their investigation.chapmaja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:04 pmThere are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmInstead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
That is speculation no doubt but its also possible. I wouldn't doubt the possibility of CSX being called as the Grand Rapids Sub isn't too far from this location. I'm not entirely sure about the time it gets dispatch to the train after the call. I know the times I've called for malfunctions the signal maintainer has showed up in less than 10 minutes. Then again GR sub isn't as busy as other lines. I imagine it wouldn't take too long to get the train to stop.JBaxter wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:34 amThe rumor floating around on the comments of those Facebook videos has it that a railroad was called but it might not have been Amtrak. Some say CSX was contacted instead, but again that is speculation at this point and like people said before it could have just taken too long to contact the train from dispatch even if the number was called properly
I think we agree, this should not have happened. I thought I read somewhere the NTSB is investigating because there were injuries to crew members involved.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:04 amTrue, as you noted my conclusion is not yet confirmed by the evidence, and is only speculation based on what we know right now - and I should have clarified that. I too will be interested in what the relevant authorities have to say based on their investigation.chapmaja wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:04 pmThere are several things mentioned in your post that I think need to be addressed during the investigation and not just assumed.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:28 pmInstead, the overly expedited attempt at saving a replaceable vehicle greatly multiplied the damage and resulted in injuries and potentially, far worse. It is quite shameful the disregard to safety displayed at the scene.
The rest of my points, as do yours, stand as they are.
I was thinking the exact same thing. The trainset remaining coupled and upright certainly contributed to the minimization of casualties. Not to mention the crash worthiness standards of the equipment as well.
Sounds all too familiar.Jochs wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:31 pm"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#