Milwaukee Junction, Detroit

[MiddleMI]

After SEMTA took over commuter rail services between Pontiac and Detroit in 1974, where was the Milwaukee Junction Station located, specifically? Prior to then I've seen old pictures of the GTW's Milwaukee Junction Station in the southwest corner of the junction. And old Sanborn Fire Insurance Map shows the old depot and platform:



Here's the location of that depot on current Google Maps:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/W3BrH6s6FBvt3FFi7

But the single picture I've seen from the SEMTA days seems to show a station somewhere else near the junction, but I'm unable to place it:



With as many tracks as is being shown and what looks like at least two platforms, this would have to be north of the junction, right? I'm not familiar with what trackage looked like around that area in the 1970's.

[GP30M4216]

I’m pretty sure that color SEMTA photo you have is mislabeled and is actually at the platforms at a Brush Street. That tall brick warehouse in the background might still be there, or was there until fairly recently.

This photo from the GTW Steam days seems to corroborate the Sanborn map, view looking south of a northbound train. I know I’ve seen photos of late GTW era commuter trains stopping at Milwaukee Junction, just haven’t found them on the world wide internet yet…

https://railphoto-art.org/collections/h ... 1578434415

[Manistique]

The SEMTA station was the GTW one at Milwaukee Junction, the one shown on the map just south of the diamond on the Holly Sub. It was small and had an "operator" office in it as they had to hoop up train orders to the commuter trains as they went by back then. I heard it was built "years ago" which probably means with the commuter trains started in the 1930's and that it was another one of those 'temporary' stations that was never replaced. Like the Amtrak one now on Woodward which is going on 30 years old next year. It was heated but no station agent or ticket seller, just the operator to hoop up orders.

It was technically just a stop and not a boarding location for the morning southbound trains in the SEMTA days and a boarding only for evening trains. That may have had something to do with the rules affecting SEMTA buses back then where they couldn't board passengers in Detroit City limits so as not to compete with the DSR. Those getting off there were greeted by DSR buses parked in the lot behind it (also behind it was the old Detroit Division headquarters building) to the trip to New Center Area including GM and the medical centers and Wayne State, etc. Same at night for the return to the suburbs.

I used to board there for the trip to U of D law school located just across Jefferson Avenue where the trains stopped. I was living in Hamtramck just up the street and could park my car there for free versus paying to park downtown. The first time the conductor wouldn't let me board saying no one has ever boarded there before! And he didn't know what to charge me. I said the price of a one-stop ticket (65 cents at the time) and threatened to hold up the train's departure. He let me on and never bothered me again. That was in 1979.

I cover Milwaukee Junction depot some in my book Chronicles of a Detroit Railfan, Vol 8, SEMTA Commuter Trains available on my website ByronBabbish.com or on Amazon. It was a neat location.

[MiddleMI]

Many thanks to the both of you!

I’m pretty sure that color SEMTA photo you have is mislabeled and is actually at the platforms at a Brush Street. That tall brick warehouse in the background might still be there, or was there until fairly recently.

This photo from the GTW Steam days seems to corroborate the Sanborn map, view looking south of a northbound train. I know I’ve seen photos of late GTW era commuter trains stopping at Milwaukee Junction, just haven’t found them on the world wide internet yet…

https://railphoto-art.org/collections/h ... 1578434415

GP30M4216, did the platforms have lights on them like in the picture posted above? Also, would there have been that many trees lining the north side of the northern-most track? I guess this is the warehouse pictured that'd place it right around Jefferson, but I can't find any old aerials or pictures that show a warehouse like that, there. There is an existing warehouse, but it's way too big.

The SEMTA station was the GTW one at Milwaukee Junction, the one shown on the map just south of the diamond on the Holly Sub. It was small and had an "operator" office in it as they had to hoop up train orders to the commuter trains as they went by back then. I heard it was built "years ago" which probably means with the commuter trains started in the 1930's and that it was another one of those 'temporary' stations that was never replaced. Like the Amtrak one now on Woodward which is going on 30 years old next year. It was heated but no station agent or ticket seller, just the operator to hoop up orders.

It was technically just a stop and not a boarding location for the morning southbound trains in the SEMTA days and a boarding only for evening trains. That may have had something to do with the rules affecting SEMTA buses back then where they couldn't board passengers in Detroit City limits so as not to compete with the DSR. Those getting off there were greeted by DSR buses parked in the lot behind it (also behind it was the old Detroit Division headquarters building) to the trip to New Center Area including GM and the medical centers and Wayne State, etc. Same at night for the return to the suburbs.

I used to board there for the trip to U of D law school located just across Jefferson Avenue where the trains stopped. I was living in Hamtramck just up the street and could park my car there for free versus paying to park downtown. The first time the conductor wouldn't let me board saying no one has ever boarded there before! And he didn't know what to charge me. I said the price of a one-stop ticket (65 cents at the time) and threatened to hold up the train's departure. He let me on and never bothered me again. That was in 1979.

I cover Milwaukee Junction depot some in my book Chronicles of a Detroit Railfan, Vol 8, SEMTA Commuter Trains available on my website ByronBabbish.com or on Amazon. It was a neat location.

Interesting story, Manistique!

[PerRock]

I’m pretty sure that color SEMTA photo you have is mislabeled and is actually at the platforms at a Brush Street. That tall brick warehouse in the background might still be there, or was there until fairly recently.

Can also confirm that the SEMTA picture is of downtown Detroit. Although by SEMTA's time Brush Street no longer existed. SEMTA trains stopped at Franklin Street or Detroit Renaissance Center. They seemed to use both names interchangeably for the station, schedules referred to it as Detroit Renaissance Center; but the station signage it's self said "Franklin Street".

Peter

[MiddleMI]

I’m pretty sure that color SEMTA photo you have is mislabeled and is actually at the platforms at a Brush Street. That tall brick warehouse in the background might still be there, or was there until fairly recently.

Can also confirm that the SEMTA picture is of downtown Detroit. Although by SEMTA's time Brush Street no longer existed. SEMTA trains stopped at Franklin Street or Detroit Renaissance Center. They seemed to use both names interchangeably for the station, schedules referred to it as Detroit Renaissance Center; but the station signage it's self said "Franklin Street".

Peter

Yeah, the track layout and greenery were throwing me off. In old pictures I've seen, the only place where you'd be looking over a double track from a platform at the Franklin Street commuter station would be at the end of the center platform, and you'd have to be looking south. It was a old picture from 1977 that I saw, and there was no greenery. I suspect the layout must have been changed, and this aerial I looked up from 1981 shows that that was the case:



Still, the trees are throwing me off a bit as they look like they are flush with the property. But maybe it's just vines growing on a fence along Franklin.

Oh, and the old warehouse in the old photo I posted is still there. However, it's been covered-up/reconstructed. It's 1301 Franklin:



What I'd forgotten were that there were two curves coming into the station, so what you're seeing in the old photo above is the curve closest to the station that began just west of Rivard to cross Atwater, and not the curve that gets you to the Dequindre Cut.

[ConrailDetr​oit]

1976

GTW Milwaukee Jct - June 1976 by tcamp7837, on Flickr

GTW Commuter leaving Brush St Station - April 1976 by tcamp7837, on Flickr

GTW Commuter - E Grand Blvd, June 1976 by tcamp7837, on Flickr

[MiddleMI]

Cool shots! A few follow-ups:

- Is the current building at the site of the former station a part of the old station or a new construction? I can't really tell; I'd guess it was part of the old Milwaukee Station just by the fact that it appears to be brick, but don't want to assume.

- I saw a track mentioned as the "Tunnel Industrial" in this area, maybe at Beaubien where the CR North Yard Line and GTW Shore Line cross. What's the extent of this line, current and historical, and how did it get it's name? It appears that it currently begins after Beaubien, but I can't tell which are the Shore Line mainlines and which is the industrial track.

[Manistique]

I co-authored an article on both the "Dinky Line" (the GTW Holly Sub segment from Milwaukee Jct to downtown) and the "High Line" on GTW's route from Milwaukee Junction to West Detroit that were published in the GTW Historical Society's publication "Semaphore" in the early 2000's (maybe late 1990's) that might answer some of your questions if you can get a hold of them.

[PerRock]

1976

GTW Milwaukee Jct - June 1976 by tcamp7837, on Flickr

Awesome Milw. Jct photo! I'm working on updating that area at the SOC club, so am always on the lookout for new pictures, drawings, etc.

Cool shots! A few follow-ups:

- Is the current building at the site of the former station a part of the old station or a new construction? I can't really tell; I'd guess it was part of the old Milwaukee Station just by the fact that it appears to be brick, but don't want to assume.

The building at the base of the radio mast is from the same time as the station building, but a separate building (you can just make out the roof behind the station in ConrailDetroit's picture).

peter

[GP30M4216]

I’ve been cruising the internet and other sources for additional photos of Brush Street (and Milw junction but am having less luck with that).

There is some discussion and some photos on this earlier RRFan SEMTA thread: http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... 0&start=20

Brush Street platforms with sheds in 1973: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/gtw-detro ... 775918427/

And a 1968 steam excursion image also from Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/289637819777403024/

Speaking of steam excursions, there are some good photos at the end of the book
Grand Trunk Western in Color, Vol. 1: Steam & Green 1941-1961 by Jerry A. pinkepank of Brush Street platforms and steam excursions departing. There are a few Milwaukee Jct photos, too, but they are of the engine servicing facilities and not the passenger platform.

I hav access to some older aerial imagery through work, I’ll try to remember to take a look at this area and see what I find.

[MiddleMI]

What's the greenery, here? Is this vines on the wall of a warehouse? Still struggling to visualize where along the platform we are here, looking north. Because the aerial I've shown above shows there was very little left Franklin between St. Antoine and Rivard. There are 2 or 3 buildings; it'd strikes me that what we'd have to be viewing in this picture was the building at the northeast corner of Franklin and Schweizer Place, right?

[PerRock]

Pditing the areal picture from earlier in the thread, the camera should be about where the yellow arrow is and the train is the orange arrow.

Peter