CN Dearborn Sub

[Man o' War]

So after confirming with some reliable sources, its happening. I'm not surprised the maintainers don't know anything because the boots on the ground guys are usually the last to know anything, unfortunately. The Dearborn Sub will be upgraded to 40 mph with CTC, PTC, and CWR. This is for new intermodal traffic that will be interchanged with NS, supposedly 2 trains each way per day. Instead of taking the connector at Delray, the trains will run down through Rodney on the CN, west to Alice, then north on the Dearborn Sub to Oakwood Jct. Seems roundabout, but that's the plan.

Interesting. Roundabout seems an understatement, but I suppose they know what they're doing. Where is Rodney on the CN?

Man o' War

[DaveO]

Where is Rodney?

trenton former site of fn tower

[LansingRailFan]

Hey LRF,

Thanks for the response and article. So work on the Dearborn sub to accommodate blocks of cars or actual new trains doesn't make sense to me for the following reason, "if" the work being done is because of NS/CN interchange of new intermodal traffic.

For cars/trains impacting Michigan, the Article states the following:

Atlanta, GA to and from Toronto, ON---Northbound/EB 3.7 days, Southbound/WB 3.3 days
Kansas City, MO to and from Toronto, ON---NB/EB 3.8 days, SB/WB 3.6 days

Ok, so if we assume cars/trains coming up the NS Detroit line (Ex Wabash) to Detroit, and its destination was Toronto, how would the CN Dearborn Sub even be involved at all?? Cars/trains would go past the NS Melvindale Yard, past Delray, then up the Mt. Clemens Sub to Pt. Huron and onto Toronto - Well, I guess full trains would do that. So even blocks of cars using the Dearborn sub still doesn't make sense to me "unless" these cars/trains come into CN's Flat Rock Yard via the I&O? Then up the Dearborn sub to...somewhere...ultimately making their way North on the Mt. Clemens sub. I don't see the Holly Sub being involved at all unless there was intermodal interchange at Moterm.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Until you’ve got full trains worth of cars, they can block Toronto-bound cars onto M384 and/or run E27661s out of Flat Rock with racks and stacks up the Clemens.

Blocks for eastern Canada can connect via L507 to Flint and then be scooped up by Q122 every morning in Flint.

[David Lang]

Until you’ve got full trains worth of cars, they can block Toronto-bound cars onto M384 and/or run E27661s out of Flat Rock with racks and stacks up the Clemens. Blocks for eastern Canada can connect via L507 to Flint and then be scooped up by Q122 every morning in Flint."

I agree LRF, but here is my question. If you have Kansas City to Toronto Trains and return, or Atlanta to Toronto trains, and return, why would any of those new intermodal trains (talking about full intermodal trains) go up the Holly Sub at all "unless" there were trains that originated in Kansas City or Atlanta that had containers bound for the Detroit at Moterm. If these new trains originated in Toronto, bound for KC or Atlanta, they are going to go down the Mt. Clemens sub (or they should), again and unless they had containers bound for Moterm.

My point is...while I would love to see more traffic on the Holly Sub of course since I live in Linden and can see them going by about 1/3 mile from the house, its hard for me to see why these new intermodal trains (if they materialize) would be routed up and down the Holly Sub, rather than using the direct route on the Mt. Clemens sub. By again, maybe interchange at Moterm is the plan.

Anybody know when all this is supposed to begin along with the upgrade to the Dearborn Sub?

[LansingRailFan]

Until you’ve got full trains worth of cars, they can block Toronto-bound cars onto M384 and/or run E27661s out of Flat Rock with racks and stacks up the Clemens. Blocks for eastern Canada can connect via L507 to Flint and then be scooped up by Q122 every morning in Flint."

I agree LRF, but here is my question. If you have Kansas City to Toronto Trains and return, or Atlanta to Toronto trains, and return, why would any of those new intermodal trains (talking about full intermodal trains) go up the Holly Sub at all "unless" there were trains that originated in Kansas City or Atlanta that had containers bound for the Detroit at Moterm. If these new trains originated in Toronto, bound for KC or Atlanta, they are going to go down the Mt. Clemens sub (or they should), again and unless they had containers bound for Moterm.

My point is...while I would love to see more traffic on the Holly Sub of course since I live in Linden and can see them going by about 1/3 mile from the house, its hard for me to see why these new intermodal trains (if they materialize) would be routed up and down the Holly Sub, rather than using the direct route on the Mt. Clemens sub. By again, maybe interchange at Moterm is the plan.

Anybody know when all this is supposed to begin along with the upgrade to the Dearborn Sub?

The containers are for Canada. Any NS containers for Michigan are handled by NS.

I hope all of these trains go via the Mount Clemens Sub.

[David Lang]

Thanks LRF, the Mt. Clemens sub seems to be the logical, and is the shortest routing.

[Man o' War]

I hope all of these trains go via the Mount Clemens Sub.

I'm with you on that! With only four manifests and two locals (neither of which run the length of the sub), there is a ton of capacity here. Straight shot, CTC, some double track and two controlled sidings - it's begging for more traffic. They've dumped a lot of money into the MTC the past several years - lets boost that ROI. Where's my Yuengleng!

Man o' War

[David Lang]

From 2006 to 2011, we lived right on the CN Mt. Clemens Sub in Macomb Township, just North of M59. In 2006, we had 382, 383, 384, 385, 386, 387, 144, 145, the local up and back, and the occasional extra. 386 and 387 soon dropped off, and to Man o' War's point, only 4 freights and the local today. Its sad.

The Holly Sub is the same way. Moved here in Linden in 2019, but long before that there were many trains on the Holly including 760, 761, 762 and 763 Coal Trains and more Manifests and Autorack trains. I remember those well in the 90s and early 2000s. Those 4 coal trains still run, but not here in Michigan. The run as 880, 881, 882, and 883 on the NS Chicago Line from Chicago to Toledo, and up the Shoreline Sub to Trenton and Monroe I believe.

[LansingRailFan]

I hope all of these trains go via the Mount Clemens Sub.

I'm with you on that! With only four manifests and two locals (neither of which run the length of the sub), there is a ton of capacity here. Straight shot, CTC, some double track and two controlled sidings - it's begging for more traffic. They've dumped a lot of money into the MTC the past several years - lets boost that ROI. Where's my Yuengleng!

Man o' War

Once Pabst is out of MolsonCoors at the end of 2024 I think you’ll see Yeungling expand to Mi, WI, MN, MO, IA thru the MC breweries in Trenton, OH and Milwaukee, WI.

[GP30M4216]

I was looking at the Wiki but some of the information looks out of date. What customers are presently served on the CN Dearborn Branch? Does CN handle any of the steel coming in or out of Cliffs Dearborn or do they just handle frames, stampings and finished autos from The Rouge? Does Woodhaven Ford Stamping have any rail service at all? It will be interesting to see if any track rationalization/changes come with the welded rail and new signal system installation.

I remember railfanning this line in my high school years with J32885 and Mackinac Mac always on the lookout for a GT blue and orange in the distance under the long tunnel of arches. I recall meeting an engineer switching the ramp at King Road who told me some of the lines operations at that time and told me to keep a lookout for engineer Ernie who would run those Geep 9 4600 rebuilds hard and fast coming up from Flat Rock….and sure enough an hour or two later here came a train bound for the Rouge HAULING with blue smoke flying! Or another time, waiting for a southbound at Penford Crossing for way too long while a headlight was stopped in the distance. Good memories. Glad to hear the line is getting some investment.

[AARR]

What customers are presently served on the CN Dearborn Branch?
Does CN handle any of the steel coming in or out of Cliffs Dearborn or do they just handle frames, stampings and finished autos from The Rouge?
Does Woodhaven Ford Stamping have any rail service at all?

What customers are presently served on the CN Dearborn Branch?
Wiki seems to be uptodate: https://railroadfan.com/wiki/index.php/ ... ubdivision

Does CN handle any of the steel coming in or out of Cliffs Dearborn or do they just handle frames, stampings and finished autos from The Rouge? Mostly stuff for the assembly plant but they have handled coke, ore, etc. for Cliffs.

Does Woodhaven Ford Stamping have any rail service at all? Not active at the moment

[Chip]

I don’t think Woodhaven stamping will ever see rail service again. That place is barely open as it is these days.

[Man o' War]

I know the wiki is really out of date, but I notice it says there is a CN interchange train between Flat Rock and Oakwood Yard (R975). If that or something similar is still running now, perhaps the plan is to have that train pick up blocks of intermodal at Oakwood, take them back to Flat Rock, then L507 will take them north to Flint. There they'll be picked up by whatever eastbound train(s) works Flint to be taken to Toronto. That would explain why CN's map of the new intermodal system shows the Holly Sub highlighted and not the Mt Clemens Sub.

An interesting little tid-bit to note - The NS pr site has been changed to show the Mount Clemens sub highlighted now as opposed to the Holly. A few days ago the Holly was highlighted. CN still shows the Holly route. Strange. For whatever reason, someone at NS chose to alter the map...

Man o' War

[MQT1223]

Old news as far as I’m aware.