Diamond in Grand Rapids

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chapmaja
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Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by chapmaja »

I just found something interesting looking at Google Maps.

It appears there may have been a diamond in place in GRand Rapids I did not know existed. This is located on an industrial property just north of 9th Ave NW (east of Seward) behind the American Seating plant.

Does anyone know the last time any of these industries would have used rail service. The sidings are long since disconnected, and I don't recall any sidings there when I was in the GR area in the late 90's.

Andy24
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Andy24 »

chapmaja wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:47 am
I just found something interesting looking at Google Maps.

It appears there may have been a diamond in place in GRand Rapids I did not know existed. This is located on an industrial property just north of 9th Ave NW (east of Seward) behind the American Seating plant.

Does anyone know the last time any of these industries would have used rail service. The sidings are long since disconnected, and I don't recall any sidings there when I was in the GR area in the late 90's.
The only train tracks diamond that exists in Grand Rapids would be Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
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JBaxter
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by JBaxter »

It almost looks like there were two diamonds on those sidings. Must've been served by a combination of NS and CSX predecessors from when there were two parallel tracks going north/south. The south diamond looks most likely to have once connected to the current CSX track.

Andy24
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Andy24 »

This area?
Attachments
Screenshot 2023-06-02 at 10.27.40 AM.png
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SD80MAC
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by SD80MAC »

Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:09 am
chapmaja wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:47 am
I just found something interesting looking at Google Maps.

It appears there may have been a diamond in place in GRand Rapids I did not know existed. This is located on an industrial property just north of 9th Ave NW (east of Seward) behind the American Seating plant.

Does anyone know the last time any of these industries would have used rail service. The sidings are long since disconnected, and I don't recall any sidings there when I was in the GR area in the late 90's.
The only train tracks diamond that exists in Grand Rapids would be Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
This why avoiding the use of words like “always”, “only” etc is important. Never make assumptions.

In addition to the old diamond at the former American Seating property, there are 2 more that I am aware of. One is inside Padnos’ Front St (Joe Brown) property, and the other is on behind Vichem Corp between Buchanann and Cottage Grove, just south of the GR Terminal Sub and east of Hughart Yard.
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MQT1223
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by MQT1223 »

SD80MAC wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:00 am
Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:09 am
chapmaja wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:47 am
I just found something interesting looking at Google Maps.

It appears there may have been a diamond in place in GRand Rapids I did not know existed. This is located on an industrial property just north of 9th Ave NW (east of Seward) behind the American Seating plant.

Does anyone know the last time any of these industries would have used rail service. The sidings are long since disconnected, and I don't recall any sidings there when I was in the GR area in the late 90's.
The only train tracks diamond that exists in Grand Rapids would be Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
This why avoiding the use of words like “always”, “only” etc is important. Never make assumptions.

In addition to the old diamond at the former American Seating property, there are 2 more that I am aware of. One is inside Padnos’ Front St (Joe Brown) property, and the other is on behind Vichem Corp between Buchanann and Cottage Grove, just south of the GR Terminal Sub and east of Hughart Yard.
The Padnos diamond may or may not be a former Interurban diamond as well.
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GRHC
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by GRHC »

MQT1223 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:23 pm
SD80MAC wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:00 am
Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:09 am


The only train tracks diamond that exists in Grand Rapids would be Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
This why avoiding the use of words like “always”, “only” etc is important. Never make assumptions.

In addition to the old diamond at the former American Seating property, there are 2 more that I am aware of. One is inside Padnos’ Front St (Joe Brown) property, and the other is on behind Vichem Corp between Buchanann and Cottage Grove, just south of the GR Terminal Sub and east of Hughart Yard.
The Padnos diamond may or may not be a former Interurban diamond as well.
There are actually two diamonds within the Padnos complex and yes I do believe they were part of the the interurban shop trackage.

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BL2-1843
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by BL2-1843 »

Have brought this up before regarding Fuller Jct. but I had a long ago photo from a GRP newspaper at one time, of a C&O BL2 and what I recall a GTW steam locomotive after colliding at this location. Tried several times looking for this without success, but can not believe it is still not around the house somewhere. Would GTW have crossed at this location? Of course, I remember that BL2 for sure.

fmilhaupt
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by fmilhaupt »

Yup, Fuller Junction is where the GTW's Grand Rapids Subdivision crossed the C&O's Baldwin Subdivision. The crossing at Fuller was protected by signals and a smash gate.

The photo you mention is of the February 7, 1954 collision between GTW Mikado #3752, pulling a freight train running as Extra 3752 East, and C&O Extra 82 South, a freight that originated in Traverse City.

According to the accident report summarized in The Evening Before the Diesel by Charlie Foss, at about 8:30 that morning GTW X3752E had backed into the GTW yard at Ann Street and set out cars for Grand Rapids. While the crew was doing that, the operator at Fuller Junction lined the signals and the gate to permit C&O X82S to cross the GTW.

GTW X3752E pulled out of the yard without noticing that the gate had been thrown against it and was on the diamond when C&O BL2 #82 hit it broadside. According to the retelling, nobody was injured and both locomotives were repaired by their respective shops in short order.
Last edited by fmilhaupt on Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chapmaja
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by chapmaja »

Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:28 am
This area?
Yes

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Standard Railfan
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Standard Railfan »

There was (is) a diamond on the American Seating plant property for the Pere Marquette to service the plants.

Here are links to two Sanborn Insurance Maps from 1913 that show the trackage in the area. Map 485 shows the diamond east of the PM/PRR tracks that ran North through that part of town. Map 486 shows where the sidings extended to the American Seating plants.

Seward street did not exist at that time. I believe the street was built later when the C&O and PRR consolidated the trackage in that area. I do not know when that occured. The entire "west side" of GR along the PM/PRR lines was a maize of tracks in the early 20th century.

Map 485 https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4114gm.g0 ... 11,0.935,0

Map 486 https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4114gm.g0 ... 96,0.649,0

Plannerdad
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Plannerdad »

I believed the consolidation occurred in the 1980s and Seward was gradually extended over the next 20 years or so. Somewhere I have a copy of the trackage rights agreement, which was the subject of some drama when the Elk took over operations from NS.

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Delray
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Delray »

Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:09 am

Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
Is this a good spot to catch a train in GR? Or are there better spots?

Andy24
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Andy24 »

Delray wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:57 pm
Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:09 am

Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
Is this a good spot to catch a train in GR? Or are there better spots?
Depends on what train you want to get. Fuller Junction you will see Marquette Rail heading southbound and northbound. GRE early morning hours and afternoon (?)

Head down south to Godfrey Ave and you will see L303, Z439, Y106 etc
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Delray
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Delray »

Andy24 wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:01 pm
Delray wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:57 pm
Andy24 wrote:
Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:09 am

Fuller Junction by Ann St. North and South tracks are used by Marquette Rail, Grand Elk, and CSX. The East and West tracks are used by Grand Rapids Eastern.
Is this a good spot to catch a train in GR? Or are there better spots?
Depends on what train you want to get. Fuller Junction you will see Marquette Rail heading southbound and northbound. GRE early morning hours and afternoon (?)

Head down south to Godfrey Ave and you will see L303, Z439, Y106 etc
I'm going to be there a couple days so I should be able to hit both. Do trains cross the river often, might be nice to get a bridge shot if possible

Raildudes dad
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Raildudes dad »

This thread brings backs a lot memories. My dad started at American Seating in 1940 as a die maker. He passed away in 1982 as the Supervisor of Tooling. So when I was growing up if my dad went in to his office on Saturday to catch up, I got to wander around the office building that was demolished a few years ago. He would take me with him to the die shop, foundry, the press room and the paint shop. Today the foundry is gone as is the office building from the 1890’s. I went to the office building site after dinner when it was being demolished. The west end of the wall was collapsed and my dad’s office was the only area still intact.
When I was a teen, before I had a driver’s license, I’d ride my bike over to the warehouse at the sw corner of 9th and the tracks hoping to see the switch of boxcars at the warehouse. The PRR served that warehouse, C&O served their big warehouse on Division. My dad loaded boxcars in the Division Ave warehouse in 1968 during the unrest in the city when the hourly workers went on strike.
The contracts were 3 years in length. And the hourly workers went on strike at every expiration. I think it was 1965 when they went on strike. My dad called home and told me to be at 9th and the tracks by 3pm in time for the warehouse switch. He told me that a number of the strikers had spent the day in the bar at 9th and Muskegon.
Sure enough about a dozen drunks showed up at the gate at the old warehouse which had been a Hayword Wakefield factory. The Pennsy crew waited for a car of RR supervisors to show up. The GRPD’s finest showed up with a paddy wagon.
The crew climbed off the engine and the supervisors climbed on. Just a bunch of yelling insults and 4 letter words with the cops telling them to get back. This seemed to energize the guys having trouble standing up. After the perfunctory whistle signal, the engine started north. At that point the drunks decided to lay on the tracks. The engine and car(s) stop. The cops gave orders to move, the drunks refused so the paddy wagon pulled up. The drunks could hardly stand so they were dragged protesting to the back and placed in the paddy wagon. The remaining strikers were vocal but the switch was completed. Supervisors off, union crew back on and that was it for the day. I can’t remember what happened the next day.
I found the 1934 maps 7-12-24C

Sorry about the late post - I lost the draft back in June :lol:

Plannerdad
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Re: Diamond in Grand Rapids

Unread post by Plannerdad »

Raildudes dad wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2024 2:14 pm
This thread brings backs a lot memories. My dad started at American Seating in 1940 as a die maker. He passed away in 1982 as the Supervisor of Tooling. So when I was growing up if my dad went in to his office on Saturday to catch up, I got to wander around the office building that was demolished a few years ago. He would take me with him to the die shop, foundry, the press room and the paint shop. Today the foundry is gone as is the office building from the 1890’s. I went to the office building site after dinner when it was being demolished. The west end of the wall was collapsed and my dad’s office was the only area still intact.
When I was a teen, before I had a driver’s license, I’d ride my bike over to the warehouse at the sw corner of 9th and the tracks hoping to see the switch of boxcars at the warehouse. The PRR served that warehouse, C&O served their big warehouse on Division. My dad loaded boxcars in the Division Ave warehouse in 1968 during the unrest in the city when the hourly workers went on strike.
The contracts were 3 years in length. And the hourly workers went on strike at every expiration. I think it was 1965 when they went on strike. My dad called home and told me to be at 9th and the tracks by 3pm in time for the warehouse switch. He told me that a number of the strikers had spent the day in the bar at 9th and Muskegon.
Sure enough about a dozen drunks showed up at the gate at the old warehouse which had been a Hayword Wakefield factory. The Pennsy crew waited for a car of RR supervisors to show up. The GRPD’s finest showed up with a paddy wagon.
The crew climbed off the engine and the supervisors climbed on. Just a bunch of yelling insults and 4 letter words with the cops telling them to get back. This seemed to energize the guys having trouble standing up. After the perfunctory whistle signal, the engine started north. At that point the drunks decided to lay on the tracks. The engine and car(s) stop. The cops gave orders to move, the drunks refused so the paddy wagon pulled up. The drunks could hardly stand so they were dragged protesting to the back and placed in the paddy wagon. The remaining strikers were vocal but the switch was completed. Supervisors off, union crew back on and that was it for the day. I can’t remember what happened the next day.
I found the 1934 maps 7-12-24C

Sorry about the late post - I lost the draft back in June :lol:
Happy New Year RDD! There was another diamond just west of the Blue Bridge, where CONRAIL and predecessors crossed the Baldwin Sub, before the consolidation. People forget the Blue Bridge was a railroad bridge (not those on this board).

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