CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Michigan.
David Lang
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:43 am

CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by David Lang »

Not sure if this means new intermodal trains, or just the addition of intermodal to existing trains, but great article here. CN is trying to compete with CPKC, and claims they not only can compete, but offer faster service than CPKC, so this will be interesting to see how it develops.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... l-service/

By the way, this question might become 2 topics here that I have been meaning to ask (CN/UP/Ferromex Joint Service and elimination of Moterm). I will ask my question, but will preface it first with a few comments. Many times I hear comments and observations that CN Moterm is full and there is no room for future expansion. (This is evident when looking on google maps, except for what could be potential expansion between the South side of 8 Mile, up to where the new Verizon property begins - "if" the piece of property I'm describing is even able to be used by Moterm by the way). My question is this:

Has CN considered construction of a new intermodal facility on its mainline, say somewhere around the Durand or Flint area, essentially eliminating Moterm? I can see some benefits by doing this, and am curious to read your opinions. Some benefits I see from this would include the following:

1. No more intermodal trains (currently 507 and 508, although lately these trains also carry general freight as well) between Flint and Moterm if Moterm was eliminated. (Now of course from a railfan perspective that would be unfortunate, but I'm thinking from a cost and business perspective). If Moterm was eliminated, trucks to and from the new mainline intermodal location is, would rubber tire it between there and Detroit (short distance).

2. This one is connected to benefit number one, but instead of mainline I/M trains dropping off their I/M at Flint, and then waiting for it to be picked up and taken to Moterm and vise-versa, which takes time and crew utilization, all that would be done at the new I/M location.

3. Assuming CN purchased a large parcel of land, there would be room for future expansion, and the new location would serve the local market of Flint, including GM Flint, and even the Tri-City market as well. (There is still a lot of manufacturing in the Flint, Midland, and Bay City areas that trucks would have access to if a new I/M facility was built on the mainline). One central I/M location could access the Detroit Market, the Flint Market, and the Tri-City Market, and for that matter Lansing as well in my opinion.

4. Land availability for CN in the Flint/Durand area could seem to be a non-issue, i.e. the land designated for the now seemingly dead Project Tim plan in Durand a few years ago. Lots of other potential locations as well along the mainline between Flint and Durand as well.

5. We all know the location of Moterm, and its not safe. A new mainline location, depending on actual location, might correct that problem.

6. If a new I/M facility was built on the CN mainline, and if the new CN/UP/Merromex service does happen as pointed out in the article above to also serve Detroit, I/M traffic to and from Detroit would simply be dropped off and picked up at this new mainline I/M location, and simply rubber tired to and from Detroit.

A few disadvantages I see would be the following:

1. Increased truck traffic on I-75 between the area of Flint of Detroit.

2. Investment cost of a new I/M facility on the CN Mainline, which would include things like environment study, land purchase, all necessary local and state approvals, etc.

I am sure there are many more pros and cons regarding this question, but what I listed are a few to get us started. I look forward to your responses.

Thanks.

David Lang

User avatar
AARR
Ann Arbor RR Nerd
Posts: 37904
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 7:39 pm
Location: Washington, MI

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by AARR »

There have been rumors over the years that CN would build an intermodal terminal between Flint and Durand.

Last I heard they might do something with their East Yard to accommodate additional intermodal traffic or possibly use one of the CR ramps.

Ever since the Port Huron tunnel was built in the mid 1990's there has always been talk about increased intermodal service but after 25+ years it hasn't increased very much at all from what I can see.
David Lang wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2023 12:27 pm
Not sure if this means new intermodal trains, or just the addition of intermodal to existing trains, but great article here. CN is trying to compete with CPKC, and claims they not only can compete, but offer faster service than CPKC, so this will be interesting to see how it develops.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... l-service/
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

DLM
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by DLM »

The train will come into UP's Global 4 Chicago ramp. I do not think this is a train from Mexico going direct to the CN. I expect the CN containers will be removed from the train at UP G4 and trucked to the CN Chicago Harvey ramp. I do not think UP will do a steel wheel interchange with CN. CN will then place the containers onto trains headed in their correct direction.

bnsfben
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1653
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:03 am

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by bnsfben »

DLM wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:36 pm
The train will come into UP's Global 4 Chicago ramp. I do not think this is a train from Mexico going direct to the CN. I expect the CN containers will be removed from the train at UP G4 and trucked to the CN Chicago Harvey ramp. I do not think UP will do a steel wheel interchange with CN. CN will then place the containers onto trains headed in their correct direction.
Apparently you didn’t read the press release or listen to the earnings call. It’s steel wheel UP to CN. No trucking whatsoever at interchange.

atrainguy60
Saginaw Sub Foamer
Posts: 4078
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:54 pm
Location: None of your business......

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by atrainguy60 »

Here's UP's press release on the Falcon Service. Included is a PDF link to a schedule chart.

https://www.up.com/customers/premium/me ... /index.htm

User avatar
LansingRailFan
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:21 pm
Location: Lansing
Contact:

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

Service starts 5/15

No new intermodal terminal

Sounds like this will take a lot of trucks off the road thru MI (good for us taxpayers)

CSX’s intermodal 132/131 may go away as that is all traffic from the UP (with manifest picked up in Avon).

GTW
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:51 pm

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by GTW »

No one is saying is this a new train across Michigan or containers added to existing trains.

David Lang
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:43 am

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by David Lang »

Hi GTW.

It is my thinking that containers will be added to existing trains to start, and will see what happens from there.

Now this is only my thoughts, and we will have to see. I saw a Trains Magazine article that a new pair of trains will be added between Chicago and Mexico, but it did not address whether trains would be added or not through Michigan.

Chip
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:25 pm
Location: Brownstown, Michigan

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by Chip »

FWIW there’s a ton of well cars being stored in Flat Rock and have been for months.

GTW
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:51 pm

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by GTW »

Thanks for the information David. We will soon find out. I guessing Q116 will carry the containers if that is what they still call it.

NSSD70ACe
The Conrail Guru
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:34 pm
Location: Bottom of Lake Mead

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by NSSD70ACe »

Chip wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 1:13 pm
FWIW there’s a ton of well cars being stored in Flat Rock and have been for months.
There are cars being stored across the North American rail system. Northern Minnesota has several miles of of small wells stored.
:roll:

the contents of the above post are my opinion and mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.

User avatar
MQT1223
O Scale Railfanner
Posts: 4028
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:46 pm
Location: Grandville, Michigan
Contact:

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by MQT1223 »

One thing is for certain, this is a direct result of the CPKC merger. Even if this was in the works before that, it definitely was kept on par with the merger given when this was announced.
1223 OUT! President and Founder of the Buck Creek Central, the Rolling River Route! (2012-2017) President and Founder of the Lamberton Valley Railroad, The Tin Plate Road! Proudly railfanning with Asperger's since 1996. :)

atrainguy60
Saginaw Sub Foamer
Posts: 4078
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:54 pm
Location: None of your business......

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by atrainguy60 »

I haven't seen anything about new trains since the start date, so I'm guessing anything new is tacked onto pre existing intermodal trains. Has there been a noticeable increase in train length due to UP/FMX containers, or has the new business been minimal so far?

GTW
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:51 pm

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by GTW »

Any update on the Mexico service? It's very quiet out there.

User avatar
LansingRailFan
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:21 pm
Location: Lansing
Contact:

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

GTW wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2023 10:39 am
Any update on the Mexico service? It's very quiet out there.
In terms of…?

PatAzo
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1368
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:20 pm

Re: CN joins UP and Ferromex for new I/M Service

Unread post by PatAzo »

After spending the last few years putting the screws to their customers, UP might have to prove itself before it lures traffic off the highway. MacDonald may have confused customers ranting with raving when they talked about their service.

Post Reply