Trains that used to run along the Plymouth and Grand Rapids subs

[CSXT9040]

Hello, This is my first time starting a topic. Can anyone tell me what trains used to run along the Plymouth and Grand Rapids subs? Thanks in advance.

[~Z~]

Probably the best starting point to be able to answer this is "When" you are curious about... there's all sorts of time periods over the last few decades in which there were various trains that used to run. Even just earlier this year, about half of the trains running on these subs had their symbols changed.

[CSXT9040]

Probably the best starting point to be able to answer this is "When" you are curious about... there's all sorts of time periods over the last few decades in which there were various trains that used to run. Even just earlier this year, about half of the trains running on these subs had their symbols changed.

Sorry I should've specified, I'll go with from 2000 to whenever the last abolishment on these subs occured

[SD80MAC]

Prior to 2006, there were several Canadian Pacific trains that used the Plymouth and GR subs every day. In addition to those, CSX ran their own fleet. Here’s what I remember:

CP X500
CP X501
CP X502
CP X503
CP X504
CP X508
CP X509
CP X511
CP X512
CP X747
CSX Q324 (Chicago-Detroit)
CSX Q326 (Chicago-Detroit)
CSX Q327 (Detroit-Chicago)
CSX Q334 (GR-Toledo)
CSX Q335 (Toledo-GR)
CSX Q336 (Chicago-Saginaw)
CSX Q337 (Saginaw-Chicago)
There were also numerous extras like stone, coke, coal, and grain trains.

After the bulk of CP traffic shifted to the NS in January of 2006, the lines became less busy. This was also around the time when CSX leased out the lines to Muskegon, Baldwin, and Saginaw. Regular trains on the GR and Plymouth subs were then:

CP X500
CSX Q326
CSX Q327
CSX Q334
CSX Q335

Coke trains K351, K352, K356, and K357 were also very common during this time, with at least one running every day. Eastern coal trains like N922 for West Olive were also fairly frequent. Western coal trains from BNSF were daily like they are now. Stone trains for Grand Rapids and Lansing ran fairly often in the warm months.

The recession in 2008 ended the coke trains, as the supplier changed and the trains no longer originated in Detroit. In 2010, the last X500 ran, fulfilling the end of CP’s contract with CSX. Not long after that, the Detroit traffic was taken away and Q326/327 were truncated to run between Chicago and Grand Rapids. That left Q334 and Q335 as the only road freights on the Plymouth sub. For a breif while in 2015, Q335 (and only Q335) was extended to run beyond GR to the BRC’s Clearing yard in Chicago every day. That ended in December of 2015. 334 and 335 ran on the Plymouth until January 2016, when CSX decided they were going to move everything between GR and Plymouth with locals. The locals, D707 and D708, ran out of Lansing and serviced all of the industries between GR and Plymouth in addition to ferrying all of the traffic between the two points. Needless to say, they died a lot. During this time, Q326 and Q327 were cut back to 3 days a week. This went on for a few months until the whole system was changed again.

In winter 2016-2017, they reinstated a pair of Toledo trains, D705 and D706, that ran between Lansing and Toledo. These only lasted a few months. It was decided that all of the traffic for everything north and west of Plymouth was going to come from Chicago. 326 and 327 were reinstated to 7 days a week, and now handled all of the Flint-bound traffic for the LSRC and Port Huron in addition to the GR and Plymouth Sub traffic. Local trains D701 and D702 were instated between GR and Flint to handle this.

These lasted until the fall of 2017, when the Flint traffic was moved back to coming out of Toledo and Detroit. At the same time they axed D701 and D702, Q384 and Q385 began running between Grand Rapids and Selkirk, NY. For the first couple of months, they carried a cut of intermodal that was brought to and from Chicago by Q326 and Q327, which was set out or picked up in Plymouth.

384 and 385 ran until spring of 2018, when Q326 and Q327 were finally once again extended to run all the way to Detroit again. A couple of months later, the symbols were changed to Q328 and Q329. They ran until spring of 2020, when the pandemic drove traffic levels down. D707 and D708 then briefly moved everything between GR and Plymouth again until they established D705 and D706 between GR and Detroit. In early 2022, these became L302 and L303.

[atrainguy60]

I know you asked for post 2000 symbols, but if you are at all curious about the late 90s, this website has a pretty extensive list of CSX/CP trains around Plymouth, including trains that ran on the east end of the Plymouth Sub. There are two lists, before Conrail and after Conrail. The link to the pre CR trains is in the list I've linked to.

http://www.xrailfan.com/trains/ply/main.html

[CSXT9040]

Thanks!

[Jochs]

In the early 1990's on the west end, we had 4 regular or "r" trains. R326/327, and R336/337. CP trains included R200, R201, R202, and R203. Later, R204 and R205, R206, and R207 were added. Second sections were "S" trains, and the West Olive-Cicero Turn from BNSF was N939. CSX switched their trains to a "Q" designation for "Quality" around the same time Conrail added "Quality" to their logo.

[KVERBERK]

nice miny history SD80MAC! thanks for sharing. Now can you do Plymouth/Saginaw/Detroit subs for 1986-1990? LOL that might be a bit much.

[SD80MAC]

nice miny history SD80MAC! thanks for sharing. Now can you do Plymouth/Saginaw/Detroit subs for 1986-1990? LOL that might be a bit much.

I know nothing about the Saginaw and Detroit sub trains, so I wouldn’t be the right person to ask.

[KVERBERK]

nice miny history SD80MAC! thanks for sharing. Now can you do Plymouth/Saginaw/Detroit subs for 1986-1990? LOL that might be a bit much.

I know nothing about the Saginaw and Detroit sub trains, so I wouldn’t be the right person to ask.

Thats ok I wasn't being completely serious although I would like to know that info. The closest I have found was on the Plymouth Diamond website that had trains listed for most of CSX in Michigan for the mid 90's early 2000's. Here is a link to that site.
http://xrailfan.com/trains/ply/plydiam.html
It is dated of course but is a really good site and has good historical information for CSX in Plymouth and Michigan in general. It also has lots of good pictures. I often go back to this site when looking for information for my model railroad, or if I just want to remenber "the good ole days" of Plymouth.

[jggilmore7]

I often go back to this site when looking for information for my model railroad, or if I just want to remenber "the good ole days" of Plymouth.

You want good ol' days try this link. More trains than your eyeballs could probably handle:

https://members4.boardhost.com/RRHXHist ... 65000.html

Enjoy!
JG

[KVERBERK]

Haha yep that was a lot to take in. Thanks for the Link!

[GP30M4216]

K905 was the weekly lime train that came up from Ohio via Plymouth to Grand Rapids, then north up the Baldwin Sub for Ludington and Manistee. As I recall sometimes it had Conrail power. I think it was usually northbound in Michigan on Thursday’s.

[amessmann]

I remember seeing the "Coke Express" hoppers sitting in the siding in Brighton, CSX liked to store them there, among other sets of cars and occasionally locomotives.
Visible from many of my middle school's classrooms, but blocked the view of the main line.

Not once have I seen mention of coal traffic destined for T.B. Simon in East Lansing, which had stopped burning coal in 2016. Not in the discussion, sites linked, or documentation linked from there. Some of those coal trains went to MSU right? I figured West Olive trains came up on the Grand Rapids Sub, and T.B. Simon trains came up on the Saginaw/Plymouth.

Thank you for the comprehensive history, SD80MAC, made for a very interesting read.

[~Z~]

For the MSU coal trains, did a search here for MSU coal. T859 seems to be the symbol used in the 2010's often. Also, sometimes coal loads were put on q327 in Detroit and dropped off at MSU enroute to grand rapids.

On SD80mac's mention of stone trains, they ran for a few years as K908, K909, K910, and K911, usually bringing stone from Chicagoland to Grand Rapids and to Lansing.
One such is here:

[Dan Cluley]

What I remember from the late '80s & into the '90s is that a yard job from Ensel would bring the coal to MSU. My guess would be that it came up from Toledo on 334 to Lansing but I don't remember for sure.

I know they reconfigured the tracks at the plant sometime in the 2000s. I think the idea was to be able to handle whole trains at the plant?

[CSXT9040]

I often go back to this site when looking for information for my model railroad, or if I just want to remenber "the good ole days" of Plymouth.

You want good ol' days try this link. More trains than your eyeballs could probably handle:

https://members4.boardhost.com/RRHXHist ... 65000.html

Enjoy!
JG

That was almost more than my computer could handle lol

[SD80MAC]

What I remember from the late '80s & into the '90s is that a yard job from Ensel would bring the coal to MSU. My guess would be that it came up from Toledo on 334 to Lansing but I don't remember for sure.

I know they reconfigured the tracks at the plant sometime in the 2000s. I think the idea was to be able to handle whole trains at the plant?

My bad for not talking about the MSU coal. Historically yes, the coal came up on Q335 from Toledo, then was taken to Lansing by Q326. Occasionally a unit train would run up from Toledo and terminate in Lansing, too. In both cases, the coal would be taken over to MSU by one of the Lansing yard jobs (Y107?). After they rebuilt the yard at MSU in the early 2010s, they could accept unit trains directly. They only ever got a handful of those until they decided to switch the plant over to natural gas.

There was also a brief time in 2014-2015 when CSX had the contract for all of the coal going to Phizer in Kalamazoo on the Grand Elk. This coal would come up from Toledo on Q335 in 30-50 car cuts and was cause for many an S335 during that time. Upon arriving in Grand Rapids, Y295 would take it over to Hughart yard along with the rest of the GDLK traffic. A couple of times if there were a lot of cars, Grand Elk would come over to Wyoming and pick them up themselves.

[Dan Cluley]

334 was a typo, I did mean 335, but I'm curious, are you saying that the coal went to GR and then back to Lansing? Did 335 not work Ensel?

As to the yard job, I think it varied. Mostly I recall it being overnight, but morning, afternoon or evening was not out of the question. Switching that plant did involve tying up the Harrison Rd crossing a bunch, so I suspect they preferred to do it in the middle of the night.

[SD80MAC]

I think 334 and 335 did work Ensel during a brief period of time but the trains generally died before making it all the way, so that practice was stopped.