B1G - The Big Train
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Yes, I know. The way I worded it didn't specifically say the GTW built it. Maybe I could've written it better. Often I take more time typing, like with my research I posted earlier about the PM trying to get into Pontiac.
i know i have it buried somewhere but i have a video from around 2010-2011 of a GTW unit in original paint going across the massive diagonal intersection at Joslyn which is right on the border of Lake Orion and Auburn Hills. I recall going to see the circus train in Orion yard with my Dad and Grandfather when I was little and there was less security so we could pull up to the yard to see what was all the commotion.
Any idea what CN had in mind to sell the line for? i would assume that cost included the lost profits from the other company's on the line although there are few.Manistique wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:17 amA few years ago CN approached some Michigan shortlines about purchasing the Orion Sub from the bridge over Dixie Highway to the GM plant. The theory was that a shortline could operate it cheaper than CN and thus lower shipping rates and maybe get back the GM Orion Plant business for CN to long-haul out of Pontiac. Supposedly, the reason GM wasn't shipping finished cars out by rail for so many years was that it was too expensive to do so with what CN had to charge. I can see that as they needed to support and maintain a long branchline and multiple crews to service them. CN talked to two, maybe three, shortlines. But they never sold it. Maybe they were just sending a warning shot to their unions about operating this line or something?
This part of GTW's Cass City Sub, was upgraded to here when the GM Orion Plant was built in the 1980's. They built a huge freight yard just outside of the plant, including a two-track mainline through it, of which little remains. A new yard office (that recently the CN police were using as their headquarters). GM has miles of tracks inside their plant rusting away including a huge autorack loading facility on the south along Brown Road. I think the State of Michigan paid for most of the yards and trackage. For years welded rail ran alongside the line from Walton to the spur to Orion Yard but it was never installed and only recently picked up. The line to the new yard and plant was basically a long siding off the former Case City Subdivision, which soon thereafter was abandoned just north of the GM spur at Joslyn (though there was a wye here originally).
And, in answer to someone's question, the Romeo Sub from MAL Junction on the Holly in Pontiac to near Opdyke Road was abandoned in the 1930's when GTW built the Pontiac Belt Line and used it from Belt Line Junction to get to the Romeo Sub, winding its way around the east side of Pontiac to do so. This way Romeo sub trains could just leave out of Pontiac Yard. It reached GM's Yellow Cab Plant on the south side of Pontiac.
Supposedly the reason for building the Belt Line was to block NYC from building a line from its mainline in Rochester to reach all the auto plants being built in Pontiac. Sort of a physical barrier that NYC would have to seek permission to pass (and would not be given). GTW already serviced the Yellow Cab Plant from its Holly Sub mainline. And it already serviced the other GM plants in Pontiac via the PO&N mainline that started on the Holly Sub at the old depot on Huron Street. So though the Belt Line was an upgrade it really wasn't needed except as protection from NYC. It connected with the Holly Sub at MP 22.5 right behind my house at one time but supposedly after the first ceremonial train run that switch was spiked and never used again, all trains coming from the north out of Pontiac Yard over the Beltline.
The Pontiac Belt Line was very modern construction at the time with no at-grade road crossings and was signaled, typical of the heyday railroad construction years of the 1920's and 1930's in Michigan. The only part that still exists is from Belt Line Junction just west of Joslyn Road to Pontiac Yard.
There are better odds pick ups will be shipped directly from Orion than little cars that only people in California are buyingdmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
Hey now, I know a guy who owns one and he lives in Rochester Hills.AARR wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:22 pmThere are better odds pick ups will be shipped directly from Orion than little cars that only people in California are buyingdmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
Don't get your hopes up yet, nothing but rumors right now. The big question is even if the volume is there, is GM gonna pay what CN wants to move those vehicles.dmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
True, but it has a California license plateChip wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:08 pmHey now, I know a guy who owns one and he lives in Rochester Hills.AARR wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:22 pmThere are better odds pick ups will be shipped directly from Orion than little cars that only people in California are buyingdmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
If anything GM would rather truck it to LSRC in Buick City and load it there where they would gladly handle smaller carloads unlike CN.conrailmike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:10 amDon't get your hopes up yet, nothing but rumors right now. The big question is even if the volume is there, is GM gonna pay what CN wants to move those vehicles.dmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
If it's a high volume seller like the current trucks then that seems doubtful. All the current full size trucks and full size SUVs are loaded on-site. Well, not exactly...SUVs at Arlington are actually trucked next door to UP's Garrett YardRacer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:15 pmIf anything GM would rather truck it to LSRC in Buick City and load it there where they would gladly handle smaller carloads unlike CN.conrailmike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:10 amDon't get your hopes up yet, nothing but rumors right now. The big question is even if the volume is there, is GM gonna pay what CN wants to move those vehicles.dmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
Bro you out of touch? CN is running away w auto traffic in MI right now, bidding very aggressively and stealing a lot of biz from CR, NS and CSX.Racer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:15 pmIf anything GM would rather truck it to LSRC in Buick City and load it there where they would gladly handle smaller carloads unlike CN.conrailmike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:10 amDon't get your hopes up yet, nothing but rumors right now. The big question is even if the volume is there, is GM gonna pay what CN wants to move those vehicles.dmitzel wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:48 amSaw this article today - possible $3B as in ‘billions’ investment by GM being considered for the Orion plant for electric pickup production. Wondering if the volumes being projected would be sufficient to warrant reactivating the branch. https://insideevs.com/news/553881/rumor ... -michigan/
What is the emperical evidence?Bro you out of touch? CN is running away w auto traffic in MI right now, bidding very aggressively and stealing a lot of biz from CR, NS and CSX.
What traffic have they taken away?LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:06 amBro you out of touch? CN is running away w auto traffic in MI right now, bidding very aggressively and stealing a lot of biz from CR, NS and CSX.Racer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:15 pmIf anything GM would rather truck it to LSRC in Buick City and load it there where they would gladly handle smaller carloads unlike CN.conrailmike wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:10 am
Don't get your hopes up yet, nothing but rumors right now. The big question is even if the volume is there, is GM gonna pay what CN wants to move those vehicles.
They have won bids on traffic from Jefferson North, Warren Truck, Sterling Heights, and Mack Avenue.conrailmike wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:11 amWhat traffic have they taken away?LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:06 amBro you out of touch? CN is running away w auto traffic in MI right now, bidding very aggressively and stealing a lot of biz from CR, NS and CSX.
Where are the offsite vehicles loaded? Lansing?LansingRailFan wrote:They have won bids on traffic from Jefferson North, Warren Truck, Sterling Heights, and Mack Avenue.
Jefferson North - Jeep Grand Cherokee; Warren Truck - Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Sterling Heights - Ram 1500
Mack Avenue - Jeep Grand Cherokee
They've been getting traffic from FCA Sterling Heights and Ford MAP for about 2 years. Jefferson North, Warren, and Mack are nuevo this year.
It’s been well known that they have made some aggressive bids this year on auto-loading traffic. I think the CSX/LSRC Flint thing pissed off some people. Might be some new sales people involved…