CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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GTW Dude wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:32 am
I've had it confirmed by CN officials that it's an abandonment in place. If I had to assume, CN is still holding out for GM to ship out their way again.
So what does that mean, just leave it as it is and let nature do its thing?

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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GTW Dude wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:32 am
Steve B wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:27 am
GTW Dude wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 7:47 am



I've had it confirmed by CN officials that it's an abandonment in place. If I had to assume, CN is still holding out for GM to ship out their way again.
Maybe "abandoned in place" is CN's term for out of service. A filing would still appear on the STB website if official abandonment was sought.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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GTW Dude wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:32 am
I've had it confirmed by CN officials that it's an abandonment in place. If I had to assume, CN is still holding out for GM to ship out their way again.
The track is out of service. Not abandoned in place. You are talking about a legal term and a legal process that requires STB approval.
That hasn't happened.

At the time Orion was built tax incentives were given.
They normally have strings attached.
Like if you remove the rail or the factory before some date, you will have to repay some/all of the tax incentives you received.

Edit: CN has removed the rail on the south side of Collier Road. The FRA accepts that as putting the track north of there as out of service.
That means CN doesn't need to regularly inspect the track that is out of service.
There are certain inspections that must be done when out of service but I don't think any apply to this track segment.
Before the track is placed back in service, CN would need to do the inspections.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by conrailmike »

AARR wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:24 am
Nothing has changed with the tracks in the area. If service does resume, I wonder how they will stage the vehicle racks because most of the yard tracks in the Orion Marshalling yard are gone.
Last I knew there were still 4 tracks behind the plant.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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conrailmike wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:23 pm
AARR wrote:
Fri Feb 11, 2022 8:24 am
Nothing has changed with the tracks in the area. If service does resume, I wonder how they will stage the vehicle racks because most of the yard tracks in the Orion Marshalling yard are gone.
Last I knew there were still 4 tracks behind the plant.
Not sure how recent it is but looking at google maps images it looks like most of the tracks behind the plant are still there but the lead into the complex looks like it's overgrown in several spots. The crossing at Giddings Rd (the the one between the yard and the plant) has been severed and paved over. Most of the yard has been pulled too.

Edit: Silver Bell Rd. has been paved over too. I don't think CN has much confidence in GM reactivating rail shipping out of there.

Second edit: I kept following the tracks because I have nothing better to do. The line is severed just south of Collier Rd. Keep going further and it's just a mess though it appears there's still some part of it active south of there.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Excuse me if this is irrelevant but I saw a CN Truck headed towards the Lake Orion GM plant on Lapeer (M-59) around the Location of the Lake Orion High School. It seems unusual that a truck like that would be out this far into Oakland county. Especially headed in the direction to Pontiac.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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GTW Dude wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:10 am
Excuse me if this is irrelevant but I saw a CN Truck headed towards the Lake Orion GM plant on Lapeer (M-59) around the Location of the Lake Orion High School. It seems unusual that a truck like that would be out this far into Oakland county. Especially headed in the direction to Pontiac.
If it was heading north on M-24, Lapeer Road, by Lake Orion High School, consider the possibility it was heading to Lapeer where CN also runs.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Or where the individual lives....I know of several employees who live in the Lapeer area

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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You know, how about a group of us buy the line from CN and operate it (of course "if" GM would begin shipping by rail again). We could apply for some grant money to get us started - man would that cool or what?! Pipe dream of course, its always fun to dream.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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David Lang wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:01 am
You know, how about a group of us buy the line from CN and operate it (of course "if" GM would begin shipping by rail again). We could apply for some grant money to get us started - man would that cool or what?! Pipe dream of course, its always fun to dream.
I’m going to call Rob and see what we can do
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AARR
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by AARR »

I have a Paper Railroad viewtopic.php?f=24&t=37881&p=458970#p458970
David Collins wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:29 pm
David Lang wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:01 am
You know, how about a group of us buy the line from CN and operate it (of course "if" GM would begin shipping by rail again). We could apply for some grant money to get us started - man would that cool or what?! Pipe dream of course, its always fun to dream.
I’m going to call Rob and see what we can do
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by GTW Dude »

AARR wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:08 pm
I have a Paper Railroad viewtopic.php?f=24&t=37881&p=458970#p458970
David Collins wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:29 pm
David Lang wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:01 am
You know, how about a group of us buy the line from CN and operate it (of course "if" GM would begin shipping by rail again). We could apply for some grant money to get us started - man would that cool or what?! Pipe dream of course, its always fun to dream.
I’m going to call Rob and see what we can do

I’ve had that idea for years but instead of Pontiac Belt Line I was thinking Detroit Belt line. Also always thought the engine house would work better on the site of the Old GTw Turntable since it has direct connections to the Lake Orion Sub.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by GTW Dude »

DaveO wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:27 am
GTW Dude wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:10 am
Excuse me if this is irrelevant but I saw a CN Truck headed towards the Lake Orion GM plant on Lapeer (M-59) around the Location of the Lake Orion High School. It seems unusual that a truck like that would be out this far into Oakland county. Especially headed in the direction to Pontiac.
If it was heading north on M-24, Lapeer Road, by Lake Orion High School, consider the possibility it was heading to Lapeer where CN also runs.

Headed south, towards Pontiac.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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GTW Dude wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:38 pm
I was thinking Detroit Belt line.
I am working on a paper railroad for the old Detroit Terminal track. Ironically, it is called Detroit Belt Line (DBL). The old DT NW2's and SW7's would be part of the DBL roster but I do not know if they will make it into current times. Your post is my inspiration to work on it again :) .
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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I think we should start with buying at least 3 locomotives - maybe a couple of Geeps, one to switch cars around in the plant, and 2 others to take racks down to Pontiac. We could eventually repaint them to GTW colors to honor the history and heritage (although I'm not sure of the legality of doing that, so we'd have to choose our own colors). The Detroit Belt Line is a cool name, but other names could be considered as well, would have to think about that. We'd all have to become certified locomotive engineers, and owning a small business would require more brain power than I have alone. Then there is buying the line if it even would be for sale, and rebuilding the line too, more "grant money" I suppose. It sure would be interesting, still dreaming though.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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David Lang wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:30 pm
I think we should start with buying at least 3 locomotives - maybe a couple of Geeps, one to switch cars around in the plant, and 2 others to take racks down to Pontiac. We could eventually repaint them to GTW colors to honor the history and heritage (although I'm not sure of the legality of doing that, so we'd have to choose our own colors). The Detroit Belt Line is a cool name, but other names could be considered as well, would have to think about that. We'd all have to become certified locomotive engineers, and owning a small business would require more brain power than I have alone. Then there is buying the line if it even would be for sale, and rebuilding the line too, more "grant money" I suppose. It sure would be interesting, still dreaming though.
We should probably move this to “Paper railroads” And leave this thread be as a talking place for activity on the Lake Orion branch.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Agreed.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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DaveO wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:27 am
GTW Dude wrote:
Thu Feb 17, 2022 10:10 am
Excuse me if this is irrelevant but I saw a CN Truck headed towards the Lake Orion GM plant on Lapeer (M-59) around the Location of the Lake Orion High School. It seems unusual that a truck like that would be out this far into Oakland county. Especially headed in the direction to Pontiac.
If it was heading north on M-24, Lapeer Road, by Lake Orion High School, consider the possibility it was heading to Lapeer where CN also runs.
I feel like an idiot. I can’t believe I called Lapeer M-59 instead of M-24. Doh!

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Mikeg1227 »

Kinda crazy but I work off Harmon near the Joslyn intersection and about 4:30 yesterday I heard the very distinct horn of a train in the distance. Don’t believe there’s any other activity in the area, any thought where that may have come from? Any possible work happening on that line!

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Mikeg1227 wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 9:27 am
Kinda crazy but I work off Harmon near the Joslyn intersection and about 4:30 yesterday I heard the very distinct horn of a train in the distance. Don’t believe there’s any other activity in the area, any thought where that may have come from? Any possible work happening on that line!
That was probably the Lake Orion branch job working industries in Pontiac
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