CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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David Collins
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by David Collins »

Beemer wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:55 pm
...this track will remain until GM decides its use is no longer wanted.
So here's what I am thinking in my 18 year old head:

There hasn't been a single train carrying a GM product on that part of the Lake Orion Branch in more than a decade... The last train that ran on that line iirc was the RBBB circus train in like 2017 or something like that, I guess CN kept the line after GM stopped shipping because RBBB must've been paying A LOT of money, and when I mean a lot, well, here's my guess, After GM stopped shipping cars out, assuming the RBBB only did 1 show per year at the palace, there were only 2 trains per year, count 1 run in and 1 run out, therefore you get two trains per year. I don't think CN would've kept the tracks in unless they were being paid to keep it (and the crossings) in operating condition, and even before the tracks were cut, there were rumors going around that CN was going to take up the tracks even before the RBBB shut down.

The one caveat was the RBBB using the line, which would make me think they (RBBB) were paying CN money to maintain everything, and that was probably a pretty significant sum. It almost seems like the RBBB was the only thing that was keeping that part of the line in use, because right after the (no pun intended) curtain closed on the RBBB, CN almost immediately cut the tracks at Collier, which would make me think that GM didn't want it to return to service in the first place.

If they hadn't cut the tracks at Collier, that would've been a sign that GM was, at one point, paying CN to save the line for later. However, as everyone knows, it's been cut, which would make me think that GM doesn't want it for future use, but as I believe DaveO pointed out in an older post, CN is only keeping the line in a non-abandoned/out-of-service state for tax purposes. If they (CN) got those tax incentives taken away, I would bet my entire scaletrains.com locomotive collection that those tracks would be gone within months, and that's a lot to bet :shock: :lol:.

Just a few ideas, probably makes no sense but I felt like it could be of some importance.
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DaveO
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by DaveO »

That whole project had taxpayer money involved.
My suspicion is there is a contractual issue that if the line has to remain until some date or some money has to get paid back.
The rail being removed saves CN from doing the regular FRA required track inspections.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by RoyalKingoftheRails »

Beemer wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:55 pm
RKR...
These tracks run through my stomping grounds. Both of the Joslyn Road track crossings (MP 5.56 & 5.84), north of the Brown/Joslyn intersection, are tagged with the yellow exempt signs (North and South bound on Joslyn). In addition, there are smaller black and white exempt signs just before each of the crossings.


Joslyn MP 5.56 (South Bound).JPGJoslyn MP 5.56 (North Bound).JPG


The tracks at Silverbell are paved over. Also, as DaveO mentioned earlier, the track south of Collier road is blocked from north bound rail traffic.


Collier MP 3.55 (South of Collier Rd.).JPG


Per the Township gubment (records/minutes), this track will remain until GM decides its use is no longer wanted. I pass the Orion plant regularly. South of the Orion yard/Giddings crossing, there is a fence across the tracks on the GM property, viewable from the south side of the Silverbell Road bridge.

Have a good day, everyone!
They must have recently put those exempt signs up, because earlier in the day I believe I drove by those other crossings and they didn't have exempt signs. I pass by regularly as well considering I go to Costco up Brown Road pretty often. It's just sad to see this portion unused, I really want to see something at least go through the active portion in Pontiac, whether it be to the lumberyard or the Ferrous Trading Center, that would still be amazing to see. As for now, I guess then who knows when or even if tracks north of Collier Road will be used again.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:32 pm
Beemer wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:55 pm
RKR...
These tracks run through my stomping grounds. Both of the Joslyn Road track crossings (MP 5.56 & 5.84), north of the Brown/Joslyn intersection, are tagged with the yellow exempt signs (North and South bound on Joslyn). In addition, there are smaller black and white exempt signs just before each of the crossings.


Joslyn MP 5.56 (South Bound).JPGJoslyn MP 5.56 (North Bound).JPG


The tracks at Silverbell are paved over. Also, as DaveO mentioned earlier, the track south of Collier road is blocked from north bound rail traffic.


Collier MP 3.55 (South of Collier Rd.).JPG


Per the Township gubment (records/minutes), this track will remain until GM decides its use is no longer wanted. I pass the Orion plant regularly. South of the Orion yard/Giddings crossing, there is a fence across the tracks on the GM property, viewable from the south side of the Silverbell Road bridge.

Have a good day, everyone!
They must have recently put those exempt signs up, because earlier in the day I believe I drove by those other crossings and they didn't have exempt signs. I pass by regularly as well considering I go to Costco up Brown Road pretty often. It's just sad to see this portion unused, I really want to see something at least go through the active portion in Pontiac, whether it be to the lumberyard or the Ferrous Trading Center, that would still be amazing to see. As for now, I guess then who knows when or even if tracks north of Collier Road will be used again.
What do you get at CostCo? I love the hot dogs and the chicken noodle soup is pretty clutch too

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by RoyalKingoftheRails »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:25 pm
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:32 pm
Beemer wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:55 pm
RKR...
These tracks run through my stomping grounds. Both of the Joslyn Road track crossings (MP 5.56 & 5.84), north of the Brown/Joslyn intersection, are tagged with the yellow exempt signs (North and South bound on Joslyn). In addition, there are smaller black and white exempt signs just before each of the crossings.


Joslyn MP 5.56 (South Bound).JPGJoslyn MP 5.56 (North Bound).JPG


The tracks at Silverbell are paved over. Also, as DaveO mentioned earlier, the track south of Collier road is blocked from north bound rail traffic.


Collier MP 3.55 (South of Collier Rd.).JPG


Per the Township gubment (records/minutes), this track will remain until GM decides its use is no longer wanted. I pass the Orion plant regularly. South of the Orion yard/Giddings crossing, there is a fence across the tracks on the GM property, viewable from the south side of the Silverbell Road bridge.

Have a good day, everyone!
They must have recently put those exempt signs up, because earlier in the day I believe I drove by those other crossings and they didn't have exempt signs. I pass by regularly as well considering I go to Costco up Brown Road pretty often. It's just sad to see this portion unused, I really want to see something at least go through the active portion in Pontiac, whether it be to the lumberyard or the Ferrous Trading Center, that would still be amazing to see. As for now, I guess then who knows when or even if tracks north of Collier Road will be used again.
What do you get at CostCo? I love the hot dogs and the chicken noodle soup is pretty clutch too
Gas most of the time but sometimes I’ll get Hot Dogs or other groceries

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RoyalKingoftheRails
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by RoyalKingoftheRails »

So I drove by the active portion of the line in Pontiac today and I went to Price Street (The Y Crossing, since the tracks split up into 2) and the right track was actually shiny like something recently came through. The left one though was pretty rusty. Wonder if they had a train maybe go to the stamping plant. Anyone have any thoughts about it?
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AARR
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by AARR »

The stamping plant has not shipped since last September.

I’ve seen the local use that track and back to the yard after switching the scrap yard
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:53 pm
So I drove by the active portion of the line in Pontiac today and I went to Price Street (The Y Crossing, since the tracks split up into 2) and the right track was actually shiny like something recently came through. The left one though was pretty rusty. Wonder if they had a train maybe go to the stamping plant. Anyone have any thoughts about it?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by RoyalKingoftheRails »

AARR wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:56 pm
The stamping plant has not shipped since last September.

I’ve seen the local use that track and back to the yard after switching the scrap yard
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:53 pm
So I drove by the active portion of the line in Pontiac today and I went to Price Street (The Y Crossing, since the tracks split up into 2) and the right track was actually shiny like something recently came through. The left one though was pretty rusty. Wonder if they had a train maybe go to the stamping plant. Anyone have any thoughts about it?
Ah dang it, I must have just missed it then. Do you have any videos or know a user who has posted videos of trains going through that line? I would like to see some more content of trains working there. I really want to get a video of something coming through here.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by conrailmike »

RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:22 pm
AARR wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:56 pm
The stamping plant has not shipped since last September.

I’ve seen the local use that track and back to the yard after switching the scrap yard
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:53 pm
So I drove by the active portion of the line in Pontiac today and I went to Price Street (The Y Crossing, since the tracks split up into 2) and the right track was actually shiny like something recently came through. The left one though was pretty rusty. Wonder if they had a train maybe go to the stamping plant. Anyone have any thoughts about it?
Ah dang it, I must have just missed it then. Do you have any videos or know a user who has posted videos of trains going through that line? I would like to see some more content of trains working there. I really want to get a video of something coming through here.
You should start to see the stamping plant ship again, they stamp for Orion Assembly and production resumed this month.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by RoyalKingoftheRails »

conrailmike wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:20 am
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:22 pm
AARR wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:56 pm
The stamping plant has not shipped since last September.

I’ve seen the local use that track and back to the yard after switching the scrap yard
Ah dang it, I must have just missed it then. Do you have any videos or know a user who has posted videos of trains going through that line? I would like to see some more content of trains working there. I really want to get a video of something coming through here.
You should start to see the stamping plant ship again, they stamp for Orion Assembly and production resumed this month.
Oh that's great news! Do you know exactly when during the week they ship to the metal stamping plant?

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AARR
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by AARR »

Will the stamping plant ship anything by rail?
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:19 pm
conrailmike wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:20 am
You should start to see the stamping plant ship again, they stamp for Orion Assembly and production resumed this month.
Oh that's great news! Do you know exactly when during the week they ship to the metal stamping plant?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by conrailmike »

AARR wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:05 pm
Will the stamping plant ship anything by rail?
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:19 pm
conrailmike wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:20 am
You should start to see the stamping plant ship again, they stamp for Orion Assembly and production resumed this month.
Oh that's great news! Do you know exactly when during the week they ship to the metal stamping plant?
No idea, I would imagine if they're still gonna ship anything it'll just be scrap

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

AARR wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:05 pm
Will the stamping plant ship anything by rail?
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:19 pm
conrailmike wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:20 am
You should start to see the stamping plant ship again, they stamp for Orion Assembly and production resumed this month.
Oh that's great news! Do you know exactly when during the week they ship to the metal stamping plant?
With every assembly plant on a Just In Time system pretty much every one of them is optimized for truck deliveries. I doubt any finished parts would be shipped out. Probably scrap outbound and inbound steel coils if they still use those and not flat steel

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by AARR »

I don’t ever recall this plant receiving inbound steel coils and they have not shipped out scrap metal in 10 or more years
Chip wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:52 pm
With every assembly plant on a Just In Time system pretty much every one of them is optimized for truck deliveries. I doubt any finished parts would be shipped out. Probably scrap outbound and inbound steel coils if they still use those and not flat steel
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by RoyalKingoftheRails »

I drove by Great Lakes Crossing Drive today and it seems that CN may be preparing to take this crossing down. A pair of lights, a gate and an E-bell have been removed from one of the sides.
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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That orange safety cone is sitting on a new base.
Being replaced, not removed.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

If they're leaving it to rot why would they be replacing signals?

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Because they can't remove the signal installation without permission-aka officially abandoned.
If they fall on someone, can you say lawsuit?
Ask MDOT about cantilever signage improperly installed/maintained. People died/got hurt. Lawsuits filed.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Ah that makes sense. Not sure why I didn't think of that.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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DaveO wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:00 pm
Because they can't remove the signal installation without permission-aka officially abandoned.
If they fall on someone, can you say lawsuit?
Ask MDOT about cantilever signage improperly installed/maintained. People died/got hurt. Lawsuits filed.
Another example, from Lansing, is MDOT is resurfacing M-99/MLK Avenue including the crossing where the JAIL goes to Reid Machinery on the old LS&MS (Baker/Quality Dairy Spur). Anyway, it's used three times a year on average and MDOT is replacing the cantilevers and all signal equipment for no cost to ADBF.

They are also replacing the North Street crossing on the Old Town Spur to Friedland, again, used very infrequently.

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