110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

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DaveO
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110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by DaveO »

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 132486001/
110mph scheduled to begin May 25
Second Wolverine to resume July 19

Hopefully ITCS will prove more reliable so that speed can be obtained

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by kd_1014 »

"Michigan will soon have the first state-owned rail corridor with passenger trains traveling up to 110 mph." They're acting like the segment from Porter to Kzoo was never 110.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by DaveO »

kd_1014 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 2:00 pm
"Michigan will soon have the first state-owned rail corridor with passenger trains traveling up to 110 mph." They're acting like the segment from Porter to Kzoo was never 110.
State owned is the important part.

Edit for clarification: Porter to Kzoo is Amtrak owned

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by ns8401 »

DaveO wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 2:12 pm
kd_1014 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 2:00 pm
"Michigan will soon have the first state-owned rail corridor with passenger trains traveling up to 110 mph." They're acting like the segment from Porter to Kzoo was never 110.
State owned is the important part.

Edit for clarification: Porter to Kzoo is Amtrak owned
Which is a distinction like saying a 55mph road is state or county. For practical purposes the distinction is meaningless.
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by SD80MAC »

Are they not running 110 mph on the UP from Chicago down through Normal/Bloomington anymore?
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

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no

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by Saturnalia »

SD80MAC wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:59 am
Are they not running 110 mph on the UP from Chicago down through Normal/Bloomington anymore?
Nope...they only tested it. That project is an absolute cluster worthy of being in Illinois!
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

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ns8401 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:44 am
DaveO wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 2:12 pm
kd_1014 wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 2:00 pm


"Michigan will soon have the first state-owned rail corridor with passenger trains traveling up to 110 mph." They're acting like the segment from Porter to Kzoo was never 110.
State owned is the important part.

Edit for clarification: Porter to Kzoo is Amtrak owned
Which is a distinction like saying a 55mph road is state or county. For practical purposes the distinction is meaningless.
It's just the marketing department making the distinction.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by Steve B »

It's not a trivial distinction. Amtrak owned and maintained Kalamazoo-Porter for some 36 years before Michigan bought Townline-Kzo.

No other state (as in the 50 states, as the press release meant) can lay claim to owning a 110 MPH or higher stretch of line.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by justalurker66 »

How many states own any line? Michigan owns 665 miles including the 135 mile former NS line Amtrak maintains.
Although funded by the state, NICTD owns the South Shore line (a municipal corporation). Max speed 79 MPH.
There is probably a long list of similar "commuter" operations that don't top 79 MPH.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

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Saturnalia wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 1:23 pm
Nope...they only tested it. That project is an absolute cluster worthy of being in Illinois!
There was a halfway decent story about the Illinoise trackage in Trains magazine a couple/three of months ago....thinkin' it was titled "The Need for Speed".....or something like that....

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by ns8401 »

Steve B wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:35 pm
It's not a trivial distinction. Amtrak owned and maintained Kalamazoo-Porter for some 36 years before Michigan bought Townline-Kzo.

No other state (as in the 50 states, as the press release meant) can lay claim to owning a 110 MPH or higher stretch of line.
It’s a small piece of bragging rights… it contributes nothing to anything otherwise. Just a little marketing and maybe a jeopardy question.
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by DaveO »

When I first read it, I thought to myself that MDOT was wrong. Then I realized that based on how it was worded, MDOT made a truthful statement.
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by Steve B »

ns8401 wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 am
Steve B wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:35 pm
It's not a trivial distinction. Amtrak owned and maintained Kalamazoo-Porter for some 36 years before Michigan bought Townline-Kzo.

No other state (as in the 50 states, as the press release meant) can lay claim to owning a 110 MPH or higher stretch of line.
It’s a small piece of bragging rights… it contributes nothing to anything otherwise. Just a little marketing and maybe a jeopardy question.
It contributes nothing other than assuring passenger-worthy speeds were re-established and maintained after NS's downgrading, and re-affirming Michigan's commitment to passenger rail. Amtrak didn't want to pay NS's sale price. The FRA paid for about 75% of the $140 million sale, with MDOT paying the rest. Amtrak probably wouldn't even have paid that 25%.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by ns8401 »

Steve B wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 10:20 am
ns8401 wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 am
Steve B wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:35 pm
It's not a trivial distinction. Amtrak owned and maintained Kalamazoo-Porter for some 36 years before Michigan bought Townline-Kzo.

No other state (as in the 50 states, as the press release meant) can lay claim to owning a 110 MPH or higher stretch of line.
It’s a small piece of bragging rights… it contributes nothing to anything otherwise. Just a little marketing and maybe a jeopardy question.
It contributes nothing other than assuring passenger-worthy speeds were re-established and maintained after NS's downgrading, and re-affirming Michigan's commitment to passenger rail. Amtrak didn't want to pay NS's sale price. The FRA paid for about 75% of the $140 million sale, with MDOT paying the rest. Amtrak probably wouldn't even have paid that 25%.
Bragging about it contributes nothing now operationally. It is good PR and marketing for whatever that may be worth. I am aware of how they bought the line, no need to get bent out of shape about that portion of it. Obviously the state contributed to buying the line.. who said otherwise?

NS Downgrading the Michigan line was less about it being in terrible shape and more about wanting to be rid of it. They had redone the line in 2000 or 2001. My hazy memory seems to recall it going from normal speeds to 10mph with Rusty rail conditions literally overnight. Like one day it was normal and the next it was being run like some disconnected tourist line. You could have biked from Ypsilanti to Jackson faster probably at one point.

Buster might remember the details of exactly what made them suddenly do 10mph better than I do. I was always under the impression some of it was to leverage the state to take it. Those threads from 2009-2011 are somewhere around here.
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by Steve B »

I was referring to the purchase's benefits, not the p.r. statement. Sorry. These misunderstandings are part of the inherent drawbacks of a message board vs. face to face conversation.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by PatAzo »

The state owned reference is this being first State of Michigan owned segment moving up to 110MPH. It's a project mile stone and worth mentioning. As for Porter to Kalamazoo it isn't part of the MDOT project and doesn't fit the context of the report or limited space they devoted to it.

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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

Unread post by ns8401 »

Steve B wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 11:30 am
I was referring to the purchase's benefits, not the p.r. statement. Sorry. These misunderstandings are part of the inherent drawbacks of a message board vs. face to face conversation.
That’s ok… some of the internal machinations of this line’s resurrection would probably make a good story some time.
PatAzo wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:14 pm
The state owned reference is this being first State of Michigan owned segment moving up to 110MPH. It's a project mile stone and worth mentioning. As for Porter to Kalamazoo it isn't part of the MDOT project and doesn't fit the context of the report or limited space they devoted to it.
It actually might have been nice to put something like “joining the Amtrak owned segment between Kalamazoo and Porter Indiana in achieving 110mph operations.” Makes it sound that much more impressive when you let everybody know you have that much 110 to throw around. I do have some background in PR and Communications for whatever that’s worth.
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Re: 110mph for Kzoo-Albion, restoring another Wolverine round trip

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Like the green segment on the map...

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