Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

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Todd_F
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Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Todd_F »

Hey all!

I just recently rekindled my GTW, I mean CN Railfanning around mid-Michigan after a nearly two decade hiatus, and was curious if anyone could help an old timer play catch-up on what's plying the rails theses days?

I've been fortunate enough to get trackside on Sunday's the last month and a half (my only day off) and usually catch 4-6 trains between 8am and 2pm. Of those trains, I know of 365 - Blue Water, 398 - manifest, 348 - manifest, and Q149 - stack. All usually spotted before noon in the East Lansing area. I plan to start traveling to Durand in hopes of catching a couple extra moves as the Holly Sub seems to run at least 2-3 north or south trains in that same time period.

Clearly there's not a lot of trains, but I was hopeful that someone could point me to, or supply a list of known trains on the Flint, as well as the Holly Sub so that I might maximize the number of trains to photograph & record.

Thank you in advance for your time and help. It's greatly appreciated!
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GTWwatcher
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GTWwatcher »

I know of a few. On the Flint Sub, there's L500 a local out of Flint Yard that stops in Durand to work the yard. Then there's L542, a local from Flint to Pontiac which also works the yard in Durand. 471 is an autorack train that comes up the Holly Sub at Durand. Most times I've been out there, I have seen this train. Sorry I don't have a full list but I hope this is helpful for you!

Todd_F
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Todd_F »

GTWwatcher wrote:I know of a few. On the Flint Sub, there's L500 a local out of Flint Yard that stops in Durand to work the yard. Then there's L542, a local from Flint to Pontiac which also works the yard in Durand. 471 is an autorack train that comes up the Holly Sub at Durand. Most times I've been out there, I have seen this train. Sorry I don't have a full list but I hope this is helpful for you!
PERFECT!! That is actually really great info. Thank you!! I think I hear one or both of those locals talking frequently around 6-8am when I listen to CN Rail Flint Subdivision - Duran Area on Broadcastify.com Scanner Radio. Come May, those should be easy shooting! I take it 471 turns west on the Flint Sub?
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GTWwatcher
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GTWwatcher »

Todd_F wrote:
GTWwatcher wrote:I know of a few. On the Flint Sub, there's L500 a local out of Flint Yard that stops in Durand to work the yard. Then there's L542, a local from Flint to Pontiac which also works the yard in Durand. 471 is an autorack train that comes up the Holly Sub at Durand. Most times I've been out there, I have seen this train. Sorry I don't have a full list but I hope this is helpful for you!
PERFECT!! That is actually really great info. Thank you!! I think I hear one or both of those locals talking frequently around 6-8am when I listen to CN Rail Flint Subdivision - Duran Area on Broadcastify.com Scanner Radio. Come May, those should be easy shooting! I take it 471 turns west on the Flint Sub?
You're welcome! Yes, 471 turns west on the Flint Sub.

David Lang
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by David Lang »

Hmmmm....471 is a new train number to me.

How new is this train number?

Thanks.

David Lang

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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

Unless new as of today, it ran as 451 yesterday.

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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GTWwatcher »

David Lang wrote:Hmmmm....471 is a new train number to me.

How new is this train number?

Thanks.

David Lang
I'm not sure if it's new, but that's what the scanner said. I've heard other railfans call that train 471 as well.

GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

There's at least one solid autorack train that goes west from Port Huron, although I don't know where it starts or ends. Usually has an E47x symbol, IIRC.

396 is an eastbound Chicago-area to Canada manifest. L?501 is a westbound Sarnia to Battle Creek manifest, usually arrives in Port Huron mid to late afternoon. There's a 505 running now too, between Sarnia and possibly Battle Creek as well. I've heard the symbol just once, didn't see the train.

395 is a westbound manifest across the Flint Sub. I usually see it here in the late afternoon/evening. I believe there's a 397 that also runs west. I'm not sure on timing though.

There may or may not be a solid tank train running across the Flint Sub these days. There was one for a while, but I haven't seen it lately, either while train watching or on other trips near the railroad tracks.

In the event you're venturing east of Flint, there's a CSX trackage rights train between Port Huron and Flint (Kearsley?) that allows CSX to reach it's line running south of Port Huron. CSX also runs the occasional coal train on the line as well.
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

ConrailDetr​oit wrote:Unless new as of today, it ran as 451 yesterday.
Is 451 an autorack symbol or a manifest symbol? I had the impression there was a manifest running the Holly as a 451. Otherwise, what's the symbol for the midafternoon manifest on the Holly Sub?
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by SD80MAC »

A451 is the autorack train, it runs to IHB's Gibson yard in Chicago. L502 is the afternoon freight that runs from Battle Creek to Flat Rock, usually stopping to work Durand. The Holly sub also sees Q116 (a mix of intermodal and freight) and M391 late at night. Those 4 trains and the already mentioned local are the only regularly scheduled trains on the Holly north of Pontiac.
Last edited by SD80MAC on Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GTW6401
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GTW6401 »

Is 451 an autorack symbol or a manifest symbol?
Its both !!! 451 carries Ford automotive and manifest traffic out of Flat Rock. CN likes to flip flop the 371-451 symbol every few months. The empty autoracks for Flat Rock usually run on 280.

M391 is the evening manifest train that originates from Lang Yard in Toledo. L502 also runs to Lang now.

Both M391 and L502 usually make a pickup/setout at Pontiac. Q116 will also work the yard if need be.

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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Todd_F »

Great info all, THANKS!!

Got out to Durand Sunday and saw some neat stuff and hope to post some pics soon. Finally got to see one of the ET44C4's as well as a couple trains with the ACe-looking SD70M-2's leading (I'm a sucker for modern motive power)! Saw a GTW GP38-2 lead a small local around the southeast leg around 9am, the Santa train come around the southwest leg around 12:45, and even saw 451 come off the Holly Sub around 3:20, followed immediately by a GLC heavy load extra northbound. And of course a half dozen other trains thrown in for good measure. Also saw a large eastbound manifest that dropped off a cut of cars at the GLC yard in town. Indeed, 2:30 to 3:30 was a flurry of activity in Durand! So much so, that it kept me from going to catch the 3pm Sunday run of the 1225.
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GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Wow. That's a much better Durand trip report than I've read in a long time!

Two other things that might be of interest- the CN Updates thread in the Train Location Updates forum here, and the wiki located elsewhere on this site. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the wiki as I can't seem to access it, but I seem to recall it being referenced before as a source for train numbers or scanner frequencies or something. And if you don't have mobile internet access, the updates thread may not be much help.
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Racer »

SD80MAC wrote:A451 is the autorack train, it runs to IHB's Gibson yard in Chicago. L502 is the afternoon freight that runs from Battle Creek to Flat Rock, usually stopping to work Durand. The Holly sub also sees Q116 (a mix of intermodal and freight) and M391 late at night. Those 4 trains and the already mentioned local are the only regularly scheduled trains on the Holly north of Pontiac.
Plus the occasional C766/767 coal trains for Whiting. L514 is the symbol for the Flint-Pontiac local, plus the L513 local that comes from Detroit to work Pontiac. L513 or the yard job from Pontiac works the customers in Waterford. The Pontiac yard job also works the customers on the Pontiac Belt up to Lake Orion. 104 operates on the south-end of the Holly Sub that works and turns at Ferndale or Royal Oak. There has been an occasional southbound E260 autorack train that I have seen through Waterford.
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

104 has been gone since September 2012. East Yard has been closed as a yard for crews to start from since then and has mostly been removed. It is nothing more than a few runaround tracks now to interchange with Conrail and DCON.

513 is the night Pontiac Job that works around town and runs to Waterford as needed.

514 is Pontiac to Flint transfer at night. Not sure if it runs out of Pontiac or Flint.

515 is the Pontiac to Detroit local that works the south end of the Mt Clemens during the day 7 days a week. Will switch any Holly Sub customers if needed or if any cars on Sunday when 950 is off. Follows Amtrak 353 out of Pontiac.

950 is the Holly Sub local that switches all customers and shoves back from Milwaukee Jct to East Yard to interchange with Conrail and DCON at East Yard. Starts at 6am, leaves Pontiac Yard usually around 9am.

Empty autorack trains are usually 280 with BNSF Engines. Can also run as 270, 260 with UP Engines.

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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Racer »

What days does 950 run? Does it run the same days as 515?

L514 comes from Flint and turns after working Pontiac Yard.

Hasn't there been a few low-priority trains have been detouring the Holly Sub lately? I got stopped by a mixed freight a few months ago in Ferndale that looked like the trains typically seen on the Flint Sub (longer than the usual trains and odd blocks of traffic). Anyone know anything about that?
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

950 is Monday thru Saturday. 515 is 7 days a week.

There has been a 348 running on the Holly sub occasionally to Flat Rock.

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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Todd_F »

Here's my rundown for Sunday. Sorry, I didn't catch most symbols.

7:59am, WB, CN, Stack, Q149, Restricted 20mph – both Gevos had non-working horns
8:08am, WB, AMTRAK, Passenger, 365
8:41am, N-E, GTW, GT paint Geep w/ 10 cars
8:57am, EB, CN, Manifest, Waited west of town since 7:45 - ET44C4 Gevo on point
10:51am, WB, CN, Manifest, SD70M-2 on point w/ C40-8M trailing
12:23pm, SB, GLC, Light Power
12:46pm, N-W, CN, Excursion, Santa Train, Two Geeps w/ all CN passenger consist
2:21pm, EB, CN, Manifest, Dropped off cars at GLC yard.
2:35pm, EB, CN, Manifest, Two C40-8M’s on point
3:12pm, N-W, CN/UP, Autorack, 451, SD70M-2 on point
3:20pm, NB, GLC, Extra, Wide Heavy Load

Still working on those pics.
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Todd_F wrote:Here's my rundown for Sunday. Sorry, I didn't catch most symbols.

2:35pm, EB, CN, Manifest, Two C40-8M’s on point

Saw this go into the tunnel in Port Huron, a little after 5:00pm. It was 396. It was really neat to see the 2444 and 2418 on the point.
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Todd_F
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Re: Flint/Holly Subs Train Symbol Help

Unread post by Todd_F »

GreatLakesRailfan wrote:
Todd_F wrote:Here's my rundown for Sunday. Sorry, I didn't catch most symbols.

2:35pm, EB, CN, Manifest, Two C40-8M’s on point

Saw this go into the tunnel in Port Huron, a little after 5:00pm. It was 396. It was really neat to see the 2444 and 2418 on the point.
396 - Thanks!! Yeah, these models have been fairly common on the Flint Sub, at least for the last 6-7 weeks. Seems out of the small number of trains I see on Sundays, there's usually one train that sports a C40-8M in the consist. From what I've noticed recently, the stripe scheme seems to be slightly more prevalent than the the CNNA scheme. Even saw a BCOL C40-8M trailing a striped CN C40-8M two weekends ago - that was cool! It would be treat to see some of the SD60 or SD50 cowls. It is still really nice to see cowls of any model still running around!! Last time I actively railfanned the GTW, the HR616's were still running. ;)
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