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Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:23 am
by GRHC
J T wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:17 am
I was excited for the Easter bunny to come when I was a child.
[/quote]
Me too.
Re: Cadillac is ready for Passenger trains? A2TC news
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:53 am
by Schteinkuh
J T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:05 pm
dalek ling wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:24 pm
Owners and buissness workers In Cadillac are excited for A2TC
I was excited for the Easter bunny to come when I was a child.
My profile pic is an accurate depiction of how I felt about adults in bunny suits.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:18 pm
by KenB
Well right now the A2TC train is a big boondoggle BUT once we are forced into electric automobiles and IF they run the trains to actually serve all the people a train is a good idea.
1. Train has to run daily. Both directions.
2. Need a special car to haul snowmobiles/ATV's at a cheap rate.
3. Train needs to stop in Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Clare, Alma, Marion, Cadillac.
4. Need park & ride lots these locations.
5. Need DMU's to operate TC to at least Cadillac during mid day. Mon-Sat.
6. Need agreement with CN to get the trains accross the diamond at Durand. Not hold passenger
train waiting for a train out of Flint or Lansing.
7. Need train to average at least 50 mph over the whole route.
To do all of this tracks must be up-graded, trains built. Schedule set-up. If we start now, (2023) can have trains running in 2033.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:56 pm
by joeyuboats
If they cannot run present day Amtrack, reliably,on schedule, what makes people think this will work??Don't hold your breath.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 1:28 pm
by PatAzo
You can have whatever you are willing to pay for. The public is only willing to pay for a thread bare skeleton intercity rail service so that is what they get.
Should the day come when the automobile is too expensive for the average person to own one (GM says it's coming) and/or energy is too expensive to travel by car, the public will demand better trains and pay for them.
Until then Amtrak will muddle along as best it can and A2TC is a boon doggie. Once (if) it happens they both be visionary projects.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:53 pm
by dalek ling
KenB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:18 pm
Well right now the A2TC train is a big boondoggle BUT once we are forced into electric automobiles and IF they run the trains to actually serve all the people a train is a good idea.
1. Train has to run daily. Both directions.
2. Need a special car to haul snowmobiles/ATV's at a cheap rate.
3. Train needs to stop in Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Clare, Alma, Marion, Cadillac.
4. Need park & ride lots these locations.
5. Need DMU's to operate TC to at least Cadillac during mid day. Mon-Sat.
6. Need agreement with CN to get the trains accross the diamond at Durand. Not hold passenger
train waiting for a train out of Flint or Lansing.
7. Need train to average at least 50 mph over the whole route.
To do all of this tracks must be up-graded, trains built. Schedule set-up. If we start now, (2023) can have trains running in 2033.
That’s a good plan. I don’t think they would stop in Marion. Another thing they should add is an observation/ bar car. They plan to have trains running at there pace after the study. 2024-2030
It’s going to be an interesting few years
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:37 am
by David Collins
joeyuboats wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:56 pm
If they cannot run present day Amtrack, reliably,on schedule, what makes people think this will work??Don't hold your breath.
Don't be so sure about your statement, Amtrak has been running the wolverine trains with close to record load factors since the spring break meltdowns and high prices at the airlines. Which made some of the public question the integrity of the airline industry in the US.
Both trains I rode to/from Chicago (351/354) were sold out, on a Thursday and a Sunday. Which may seem impossible. But when you think about it, it takes less time to take the train from Ann Arbor (where most passengers got on/off), than to drive to metro airport, getting there two hours early, waiting on boarding your flight, actually flying, getting your baggage and then driving to wherever you're going in CHI.
There are TONS of people (including my family, it's quite an interesting time at the dinner table when we talk about this
) who believe that this is feasible, however, they haven't done enough math to realize that this is a complete waste of time and money, and (if taxpayers are paying for this), it will be coming out of THEIR pockets if it fails.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:57 am
by Ben Higdon
David Collins wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 10:37 am
joeyuboats wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:56 pm
If they cannot run present day Amtrack, reliably,on schedule, what makes people think this will work??Don't hold your breath.
Don't be so sure about your statement, Amtrak has been running the wolverine trains with close to record load factors since the spring break meltdowns and high prices at the airlines. Which made some of the public question the integrity of the airline industry in the US.
Both trains I rode to/from Chicago (351/354) were sold out, on a Thursday and a Sunday. Which may seem impossible. But when you think about it, it takes less time to take the train from Ann Arbor (where most passengers got on/off), than to drive to metro airport, getting there two hours early, waiting on boarding your flight, actually flying, getting your baggage and then driving to wherever you're going in CHI.
There are TONS of people (including my family, it's quite an interesting time at the dinner table when we talk about this
) who believe that this is feasible, however, they haven't done enough math to realize that this is a complete waste of time and money, and (if taxpayers are paying for this), it will be coming out of THEIR pockets if it fails.
I don't think I've heard of anyone taking a plane from Metro to Chicago, unless to catch a connecting flight. I took the train to Chicago to catch a plane several times 15-20 years ago, but I wouldn't roll the dice on that now.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:33 pm
by KenB
Futher to what I wrote on Oct 10, 2022 about AA2TC
At the Ann Arbor end, the old interchange track between AA and MCRR would have to be installed including four quadrent gates at Main St. and power switches on both ends. After train gets on MCRR they would use the existing Amtrak depot. Than there are two plans. Depending on time. Train would go East to Dearborn and turn on the Junction Yard branch wye at Townline and could lay over at he Dearborn station until time to go back North.
If not enought time for the Dearborn Run than train could go to Willow Run yard, be turned on wye and lay over until time to go back North. At Willow Run radio controled turnouts would have to be installed.
The Dearborn run would get people from the West side of Detroit and also service AA with another train.
On the North End. With DMU's operating South out of TC, DMU's could also go to Petoskey again depending on schedule of main AA toTC train.
If all of this is done along with connecting bus service this would make up-North fully connected. I will not live long enough to see it.
Before we get the AA2TC train we should get a Detroit to Michigan City train on the C&O.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:35 am
by PatAzo
Why Michigan City?
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:33 am
by railrod1949
KenB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:33 pm
Futher to what I wrote on Oct 10, 2022 about AA2TC
At the Ann Arbor end, the old interchange track between AA and MCRR would have to be installed including four quadrent gates at Main St. and power switches on both ends. After train gets on MCRR they would use the existing Amtrak depot. Than there are two plans. Depending on time. Train would go East to Dearborn and turn on the Junction Yard branch wye at Townline and could lay over at he Dearborn station until time to go back North.
If not enought time for the Dearborn Run than train could go to Willow Run yard, be turned on wye and lay over until time to go back North. At Willow Run radio controled turnouts would have to be installed.
The Dearborn run would get people from the West side of Detroit and also service AA with another train.
On the North End. With DMU's operating South out of TC, DMU's could also go to Petoskey again depending on schedule of main AA toTC train.
If all of this is done along with connecting bus service this would make up-North fully connected. I will not live long enough to see it.
Before we get the AA2TC train we should get a Detroit to Michigan City train on the C&O.
The old interchange track crossing Main Street aka BR US-23 and did had cantilever crossing signals. That interchange track was used by the old Ann Arbor RR switch run based out of Ferry Yard located on the U of M campus. That interchange track is long gone now.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 8:36 pm
by dalek ling
https://youtu.be/PqGZSMd7kXI
Sounds like the Michigan Environment council did a interview with the people behind A2TC. They talked about some “interesting” stuff
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:47 am
by KenB
PatAzo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:35 am
Why Michigan City?
Well at Michigan City there is a Casino which is a destnation location. There is also a connection to the south Shore for people who are not going to Chicago such as South Bend or Gary and other points on the CSS.
It is about connectivity. Connecting the points in between major cities. The airlines, and Amtrak too, think all people want to go Detroit to Chicago but really people need to connect to smaler places such as Lansing to South Bend or Gary. People do live in these other places.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:40 pm
by justalurker66
KenB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:33 pm
Before we get the AA2TC train we should get a Detroit to Michigan City train on the C&O.
KenB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:47 am
Well at Michigan City there is a Casino which is a destnation location. There is also a connection to the south Shore for people who are not going to Chicago such as South Bend or Gary and other points on the CSS.
It is about connectivity. Connecting the points in between major cities. The airlines, and Amtrak too, think all people want to go Detroit to Chicago but really people need to connect to smaler places such as Lansing to South Bend or Gary. People do live in these other places.
So you are suggesting Amtrak run a train all the way from Detroit through Grand Rapids to Michigan City and leave them a mile away from the South Shore station? Or did you have greater plans?
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:58 pm
by KenB
Yes. Detroit to Michigan City. Yes, there is a several block difference between the two stations. Would have to work with the City to have a shuttle bus between the two stations. Having train end in St. Joseph is good. Heck, you get off the train right at the beech but if you get to Michigan City you have more connectivity and a Casino as a draw.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:56 am
by GRHC
justalurker66 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 5:40 pm
KenB wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:33 pm
Before we get the AA2TC train we should get a Detroit to Michigan City train on the C&O.
KenB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:47 am
Well at Michigan City there is a Casino which is a destnation location. There is also a connection to the south Shore for people who are not going to Chicago such as South Bend or Gary and other points on the CSS.
It is about connectivity. Connecting the points in between major cities. The airlines, and Amtrak too, think all people want to go Detroit to Chicago but really people need to connect to smaler places such as Lansing to South Bend or Gary. People do live in these other places.
So you are suggesting Amtrak run a train all the way from Detroit through Grand Rapids to Michigan City and leave them a mile away from the South Shore station? Or did you have greater plans?
Holland Michigan to Detroit Michigan passenger rail service has already been discussed a few years ago.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/l ... /80761258/
https://www.mlive.com/news/2016/02/detr ... n_stu.html
https://mibyrail.org/coast-to-coast-line/
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:39 am
by PatAzo
I think what Ken is saying is Amtrak is a Chicago based system. Everything radiates out of Chicago as if everyone is headed to Chicago. People in Detroit for example want to go other places. For Michigan transportation as a whole connecting south east Michigan to the more than the Wolverine service should be done before the A2TC service.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:30 am
by KenB
Yes that is mostly what I mean. To gi yo South Bend for a footbal game or visit your childrren in collage why go all the way to Chicago than back east.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:03 pm
by justalurker66
KenB wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 10:58 pm
Yes. Detroit to Michigan City. Yes, there is a several block difference between the two stations. Would have to work with the City to have a shuttle bus between the two stations. Having train end in St. Joseph is good. Heck, you get off the train right at the beech but if you get to Michigan City you have more connectivity and a Casino as a draw.
No station on the C&O line in Michigan City ... so spend millions of dollars building one or providing a connection where the C&O crosses the AML so one can get Detroit to Michigan City trains to the closed Amtrak station in Michigan City.
Michigan City couldn't support an Amtrak station on a through train and now you think that it could somehow become an endpoint that would be worthy of terminating trains from Detroit via Grand Rapids? It is a solution in search of a problem.
GR H & C wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:56 am
Holland Michigan to Detroit Michigan passenger rail service has already been discussed a few years ago.
If a Holland Michigan to Detroit Michigan train is routed through Michigan City there is a problem. Extending a Holland to Detroit train to become a Chicago to Detroit via Grand Rapids train might work but there isn't a Holland to Detroit train to extend. Nor would it connect Ann Arbor to Traverse City.
Re: Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project
Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:12 pm
by J T
The only trains that will work in this state are the ones running on the current routes. Anything beyond those routes is a railfan fantasy.