Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

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jggilmore7
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by jggilmore7 »

GP30M4216 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:42 am
Does anyone know how long Guardian has been there?
I started seeing the "Glass Man" sometime in the late 70s/early 80s...

JG

Manistique
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by Manistique »

Further about DTRR and Union Belt...

I just found out that Union Belt RR employed their own switchmen (conductors, brakemem, etc.) but not the engineer or fireman. Those were from the railroad whose locomotive they were using that job (Wabash, C&O or PRR). Except for the NW5-s they owned to switch the depot downtown, where the entire crew worked for the Union Belt. And that all trains to and from the station would be powered by an NW-5 until off the viaduct at the station where it would uncouple and the other railroad's passenger train would take it from there.

I saw that NW5 in Florida years ago. I think it is in Parish.

The PRR had that line off of the C&O main at P Company Junction that ran to Highland Park. I am not sure if that ever was part of the Union Belt or not. It seems to me it was always PRR and its later successors only. It was a very late (1920's) push by PRR to reach Detroit and never amounted to a whole lot. At that time Ford was building the River Rouge Plant and soon the role of Highland Park Plant was greatly diminished when production of the new Model A was started in the Rouge. Too little too late. It had to cross DTRR at Livernois Road and DTRR sued to prevent it, losing the suit. The diamond was unprotected and just a visual clearance when I photographed trains on it in the early 1980's. It never reached the Ford Highland Park plant, stopping at Woodward or maybe a bit west of there before the plant. I have maps showing PRR once intended to extend this line all the way to Van Dyke Road on the east side to access shippers, crossing DTRR again along Six Mile Road and running on the north side of it and Davison Yard but it never happened. My guess is that the Great Depression put an end to that plan.

GTW sold its 50% ownership to Conrail as part of GTW buying the DT&I. For $1 I hear. I think it was just getting out of the DTRR money pit to help finance its acquisition and by then DTRR's role as a interchange railroad had greatly diminished with all the mergers in Detroit railroads and the lack of shippers remainiing on DTRR. It was in bad shape by 1982. And having two owners was probably complicating the making of important decisions with regard to operating it.

Two of the DTRR NW2's were rebuilt by IHB. I had heard that the State of Michigan helped pay for it but am not so sure now as I also hear the DTRR couldn't pay for the rebuild so gave another NW2 to IHB in payment thereof. The two rebuilt ones were kept operating by Conrail for a number of years, one of them assigned to Detroit. I hear the rest were scrapped when Conrail bought the rest of the DTRR. They were from 1945 or so and worn out.

Union Belt once had a four-track mainline with two industrial tracks on either side on its run from Delray to Fort Street Union Station. It was a very busy railroad not only with industries (The Detroit Produce Terminal once had 31 tracks into it switched by many UB crews 24 hours a day) but many passenger trains from many railroads. It was a predecessor to Conrail Shared Assets in theory in that other railroads owned, operated and profited by it. That line also served the Wabash/NW Detroit River carferries at the Ambassador Bridge.

GP30M4216
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

jggilmore7 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:27 am
GP30M4216 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:42 am
Does anyone know how long Guardian has been there?
I started seeing the "Glass Man" sometime in the late 70s/early 80s...

JG
I did some research and answered my own question, and it corroborates what JG recalls. Guardian Glass opened their Carleton float glass plant in late 1970 and had a couple expansions within the first few years. I wonder if Penn Central was excited to have a busy new customer ($$$) at that time or if it was just seen as another headache at that point?

The aerial imagery currently up in Google shows mostly covered hoppers as expected, but also a single lumber centerbeam to the east with boards stacked nearby. Would they be getting lumber for packaging/glass shipment purposes?

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Eric Berger
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by Eric Berger »

GP30M4216 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:08 am
I did some research and answered my own question, and it corroborates what JG recalls. Guardian Glass opened their Carleton float glass plant in late 1970 and had a couple expansions within the first few years. I wonder if Penn Central was excited to have a busy new customer ($$$) at that time or if it was just seen as another headache at that point?

The aerial imagery currently up in Google shows mostly covered hoppers as expected, but also a single lumber centerbeam to the east with boards stacked nearby. Would they be getting lumber for packaging/glass shipment purposes?
I think they also ship glass slabs out on those centerbeams. I have seen this on quite a few occasions when I'd catch him passing by.
"From a really tall tower, in the middle of a really big field..."

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Eric Berger
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by Eric Berger »

I've been racking my brain here, but maybe someone can help jog my memory. I seem to remember someone reminiscing about working at Carleton Tower back in the 1970s; while they mostly spoke of C&O and DT&I operations there, they did mention a bit about PRR/PC as well. I seem to remember them mentioning that the passing siding heading up alongside the Secondary from Carleton was almost always clogged with traincars, thus inaccessible. There were also a few other things that I remember them mentioning, but unfortunately, I'm unable to recall most of it now. Hopefully someone can point me to that section, so that I can go over it again and perhaps knock some of the cobwebs out of my memory here.
"From a really tall tower, in the middle of a really big field..."

GP30M4216
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

Eric Berger wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:08 pm
I've been racking my brain here, but maybe someone can help jog my memory. I seem to remember someone reminiscing about working at Carleton Tower back in the 1970s; while they mostly spoke of C&O and DT&I operations there, they did mention a bit about PRR/PC as well. I seem to remember them mentioning that the passing siding heading up alongside the Secondary from Carleton was almost always clogged with traincars, thus inaccessible. There were also a few other things that I remember them mentioning, but unfortunately, I'm unable to recall most of it now. Hopefully someone can point me to that section, so that I can go over it again and perhaps knock some of the cobwebs out of my memory here.
I think you are thinking of RRFan member C&ODispatcher: https://railroadfan.com/phpbb/memberlis ... file&u=610

And thank you for answering my question about the Guardian Glass centerbeams. Once upon a time I used to get down to Carleton area with some regularity, but I haven’t been there in years! I enjoy reading up on the Carleton info and Lincoln secondary data.

MiddleMI
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by MiddleMI »

Livernois Yard is getting paved. From MDOT:
LANSING, Mich. - Neighborhoods near the Detroit Livernois Intermodal Facility in southwest Detroit stand to benefit from a Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) 2024 Michigan Rail Enhancement Grant Program (M-REP) grant announced today. The $5 million grant to CSX Transportation will support equipment upgrades, track work and paving the dirt and gravel yard. Paving the yard is an important measure to help limit the amount of dust kicked up and blown into surrounding neighborhoods.

313 Railfan
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by 313 Railfan »

Today the Conrail Shared Assets zone on the NS Detroit Line sees 6 daily NS road trains. That would be:


NS 272, 273 (Intermodal)
NS 333, 334 (Manifest)
NS 11N (Autoracks)
NS 10N (Automotive/Manifest)


Not long ago the CSAO got 9 trains a day, but NS just recently re routed two trains to use the NS Wabash Line (Detroit District) every day, and changed the origin of another train to Elkhart, IN.


There is a Conrail local named CSAO Trenton 3 that serves the BASF plant in Wyandotte early in the morning (departs around 7-8am) on weekdays. Sometimes he goes further south to Jones Chemicals in Riverview.


And for the Lincoln Secondary, it gets CSX I131 and I132 on most days, but sometimes mixed cars will be thrown on to those trains and they stay on CSX trackage all the way in those cases. The Lincoln also gets a Conrail job called CSAO Trenton 1 that goes to Brownstown and comes back, works businesses along the way. On M-W-F the line gets another CSAO local in the evening. So 3-4 daily trains most of the time for the Lincoln.


Occasionally, CSX I150 uses the Lincoln, if they have no work to do between Carleton and Detroit.



Hope that helps!

GP30M4216
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Re: Conrail Shared Assets Trackage

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

Eric Berger wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:08 pm
I've been racking my brain here, but maybe someone can help jog my memory. I seem to remember someone reminiscing about working at Carleton Tower back in the 1970s; while they mostly spoke of C&O and DT&I operations there, they did mention a bit about PRR/PC as well. I seem to remember them mentioning that the passing siding heading up alongside the Secondary from Carleton was almost always clogged with traincars, thus inaccessible. There were also a few other things that I remember them mentioning, but unfortunately, I'm unable to recall most of it now. Hopefully someone can point me to that section, so that I can go over it again and perhaps knock some of the cobwebs out of my memory here.
C&O Dispatcher has been recently sharing some Carleton memories (pre-Conrail) on this thread: https://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39625

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