Lake Shore Limited Michigan test routing

[Fred]

My guess the stops would be Dearborn (for the metro Detroit area), Ann Arbor ( U of M), Jackson (for Albion & MSU students), Kalamazoo (for WMU & Kalamazoo College) and probably Michigan City ( South Bend patrons, Notre Dame).

[GreatLakesRailfan]

My guess the stops would be Dearborn (for the metro Detroit area), Ann Arbor ( U of M), Jackson (for Albion & MSU students), Kalamazoo (for WMU & Kalamazoo College) and probably Michigan City ( South Bend patrons, Notre Dame).

Oddly, Niles is maybe 15 minutes north of Notre Dame, Michigan City is 45 minutes to an hour away, and if you're heading into Chicago, nobody rides Amtrak anyway. The South Shore is cheaper and far less inconvenient than Amtrak's schedule, and even connects to local transit right in South Bend (at the airport). If anything, Niles would be a better choice, as long as the parking lot can handle the extra traffic.

[Typhoon]

My guess the stops would be Dearborn (for the metro Detroit area), Ann Arbor ( U of M), Jackson (for Albion & MSU students), Kalamazoo (for WMU & Kalamazoo College) and probably Michigan City ( South Bend patrons, Notre Dame).

Oddly, Niles is maybe 15 minutes north of Notre Dame, Michigan City is 45 minutes to an hour away, and if you're heading into Chicago, nobody rides Amtrak anyway. The South Shore is cheaper and far less inconvenient than Amtrak's schedule, and even connects to local transit right in South Bend (at the airport). If anything, Niles would be a better choice, as long as the parking lot can handle the extra traffic.

It wouldn't be stopping there for traffic to Chicago, unless you are connecting to another train there. The stop would be for people in NW Indiana that want to go east. My guess is something will be added in Indiana, as the state would be losing 2 stops with the move. It has been reported on another board that Indiana would want the train to stop at Hammond if the reroute is made. I think Michigan City would be a better stop personally, but meh...

[GAP]

When is this new routing supposed to begin? What will be the train times along the route, especially thru Kalamazoo?

[Ypsi]

October is what has been rumored. Since Kzoo is sorta north of Elkhart I would use that as a guide more or less (assuming a similar timetable is used). My best guess would be at or later than they would normally arrive at Elkhart in either direction.

[TrainWatcher]

My guess the stops would be Dearborn (for the metro Detroit area), Ann Arbor ( U of M), Jackson (for Albion & MSU students), Kalamazoo (for WMU & Kalamazoo College) and probably Michigan City ( South Bend patrons, Notre Dame).

Oddly, Niles is maybe 15 minutes north of Notre Dame, Michigan City is 45 minutes to an hour away, and if you're heading into Chicago, nobody rides Amtrak anyway.

You'd be shocked at the loading the LSL gets some times at SOB Charles.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

My guess the stops would be Dearborn (for the metro Detroit area), Ann Arbor ( U of M), Jackson (for Albion & MSU students), Kalamazoo (for WMU & Kalamazoo College) and probably Michigan City ( South Bend patrons, Notre Dame).

Oddly, Niles is maybe 15 minutes north of Notre Dame, Michigan City is 45 minutes to an hour away, and if you're heading into Chicago, nobody rides Amtrak anyway.

You'd be shocked at the loading the LSL gets some times at SOB Charles.

Maybe. Based on the number of cars in the lot at times, it's gotta be impressive.

[LakeATCS]

I am wondering if Amtrak has enough ITCS equipped locos to make this work. I observed several Michigan trains in Michigan City running single unit.

[coasterrider]

yep !!!!

[NSSD70ACe]

I am wondering if Amtrak has enough ITCS equipped locos to make this work. I observed several Michigan trains in Michigan City running single unit.

Somebody said something about Amtrak equipping more units with ITCS equipment, but as for the reliability of the information, that remains to be seen.

[LakeATCS]

For those who think the Waterloo station is a joke, it's not.

http://indianaeconomicdigest.com/main.a ... leID=84886

I realize that this being a Michigan for is hopelessly biased. But put the shoe on the other foot. What if you were loosing the train?

[Ypsi]

In terms of losing the train, if you really want to take the train you will drive the hour north to catch it. That's plain and simple. Just this week we drove the hour south to catch the train to DC (rather than take the "ambus" from Ann Arbor), and have done the same going to NYC. Obviously I am a Michigander so I guess (well obviously ) a bias will exist, but if you look at population data it's not really close for the potential station stops. Ann Arbor alone has more than the three small stops lost combined I believe. Amtrak may lose xxx yearly riders from IN, but the potential is there for more riders just based on just city populations. But I suppose that will be determined by there test.

As a general FYI, I looked over a copy of "Ohio passenger rail" (I believe that what's the little free paper was called) at the Toledo Amtrak station and they had a blurb about it.

And some concerns I would have at this point about the test is that riders generally don't plan trips that short in notice, and October is probably a terrible time to test something like this (low travel as compared to summer or holidays).. So I would bet the numbers are going to be lower than they could be with a larger window of announcement (from what I have seen no public "release" has been made) and doing such at an "off" time.

[M.D.Bentley]

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Just recieved this today. This train may affect my work if the schedule isn't kept.

[PerRock]

It's going to be a little hard for the LSL to be in Dearborn, Ann Arbor, Jackson & Battle Creek at the same time (7:05am)

peter

[Ypsi]

The October TT is on the right. Looks like old timing not including new stations is on the left

[LakeATCS]

In terms of losing the train, if you really want to take the train you will drive the hour north to catch it. That's plain and simple. Just this week we drove the hour south to catch the train to DC (rather than take the "ambus" from Ann Arbor), and have done the same going to NYC. Obviously I am a Michigander so I guess (well obviously ) a bias will exist, but if you look at population data it's not really close for the potential station stops. Ann Arbor alone has more than the three small stops lost combined I believe. Amtrak may lose xxx yearly riders from IN, but the potential is there for more riders just based on just city populations. But I suppose that will be determined by there test.

As a general FYI, I looked over a copy of "Ohio passenger rail" (I believe that what's the little free paper was called) at the Toledo Amtrak station and they had a blurb about it.

And some concerns I would have at this point about the test is that riders generally don't plan trips that short in notice, and October is probably a terrible time to test something like this (low travel as compared to summer or holidays).. So I would bet the numbers are going to be lower than they could be with a larger window of announcement (from what I have seen no public "release" has been made) and doing such at an "off" time.

Yeah....uhh only folks from Indianapolis allready drive OVER and hour to catch it on Waterloo just off I69.

[Steve B]

Eastbound TT not ready yet?

I'd be more sympathetic about IN and OH losing service if they had done a d-a-m-ned thing to help Amtrak in their states.

[Ypsi]

Yeah....uhh only folks from Indianapolis allready drive OVER and hour to catch it on Waterloo just off I69.

So you support your argument for why it affects Waterloo by saying how it affects Indy? its hard to say how many riders are driving from out of town to catch the train other than with data Amtrak has from ticket sales via credit card/ reservation info. But as someone without that information you need to look at hard data and numbers. And the population data speaks for it's self in terms of cities that will be testing service. Not to mention the other cities within 20 minutes drive of these stations that wouldn't be included. Ypsilanti, Detroit, canton, Chelsea, Farmington etc.. All over 20,000 people easily. I can't think of a town within that short amount of distance to Waterloo that has even close to the numbers that are in Michigan in terms of pure population.

[Ypsi]

For the record:

Populations of LSL skipped stops

South Bend: 100,886
Elkhart: 51,265
Waterloo: 2,236
Bryan: 8,527

Total: 162,914

Populations of Wolverine line stops that could be made:

Hammond: 78,967


Niles: 30,022

Kalamazoo: 75,548
Battle Creek: 51,848

Jackson: 33,423
Ann Arbor: 117,025
Dearborn: 95, 884

Total: 403,750

Edited totals to reflect the stations they will stop at. Still way more people directly at the cities of stops. Amtrak has to look at the data they have for ridership and population data. Purely looking at the population data for stops you can see a very big difference. Top that off with multiple cities that have over 20,000 people and even more (Ypsilanti, canton, Farmington, Detroit, etc) within 15-20 minute drives of these cities, you cannot compare to Indiana. Waterloo is 2,200 people give or take, and I can't think of any cities close with populations even close to those of SEM.

*this is purely using data and looking at information as a business would. You can't just make sure everyone isn't butthurt. You have to look at data and numbers. In addition the state of Michigan is apperently pulling strings to have this happen.

[MiddleMI]

I wouldn't even seriously debate this move, because it's not a legitimate controversy. The cities losing their service have every right to feel disappointed/angry and even try and fight for it before this is made permanent. That said, I wouldn't even engage them, because the LSL going through Michigan makes so much more sense it's not even worth a debate. Southeast Michigan should have never been disconnected from the East Coast in the first place, and as Michigan invest more in its services perhaps folks will see that Chicago isn't the end-all/be-all hub; there should be other options and smaller hubs.