BIG work coming from Elkhart to Goshen on NS

[Saturnalia]

projects that would help would be to do more grade separation programs like Indiana AVE. Though who is gonna pay for something of that nature?

As already noted, Prairie St is slated for grade separation beginning next year. Taxpayers will pay for it ... like it or not.

PS: I like it.

If the citizens want it, they will pay for it. It makes little sense for private enterprise to pay for something they don't want, and the gov't does not mandate. NS could care less if they stacked up cars for miles. They'll just say "You want it, you're paying for it".

[berkmeister]

Well Zack, that bridge over the Elkhart River used to hold 4 tracks; this section of the Water Level Route was a 4 track mainline from just outside the west side of Ligoner to South Bend. The inner two mains were for passenger trains and high-speed manifest freights. The outer two mains were for drag freights and locals. I was wrong, no need for a new bridge apparently. Berkmeister

[justalurker66]

That bridge is not the same as it once was. But that being said, it appears that there is room on the bridge for a third track south of the current two. It appears to be boarded over for use by MOW vehicles. (Hopefully it meets modern standards.) The part of the bridge used for the north track is gone other than the abutments.

As far as the pillars I referred to earlier in the thread that are north of the NS bridge. I have found a page that claims that these were a bridge for an electric interurban. I thought the interurban ran on the south side of the NYC. I'll need to do more research.

[berkmeister]

Those abutments on the north side of the NS bridge have a single girder left in the center of the abutments. It's not an interurban line but the former Big Four mainline, which ran just north of the NYC Water Level Route starting on the north side of Goshen. This line stayed on the north, then the east side of NYC as both lines paralelled each other headed to Elkhart. At one time many years ago, the Big Four crossed the NYC at grade with a tower nearby on the near east side of Goshen. Then the Big Four headed due south. The southbound section is now part of NS's Marion Disrict after it curves away from the NS Chicago Line on the near east side of Goshen. Berkmeister

[CSX_CO]

projects that would help would be to do more grade separation programs like Indiana AVE. Though who is gonna pay for something of that nature?

As already noted, Prairie St is slated for grade separation beginning next year. Taxpayers will pay for it ... like it or not.

PS: I like it.

If the citizens want it, they will pay for it. It makes little sense for private enterprise to pay for something they don't want, and the gov't does not mandate. NS could care less if they stacked up cars for miles. They'll just say "You want it, you're paying for it".

What about the case of NS wanting to be rid of the road to help improve track geometry in the area and speed up operations? There is obviously nothing wrong with the grade crossing now, so if those improvements result in an unsafe crossing, then NS should have to pay for some other form of "Public Crossing". That's why the railroads have to work with municipalities to close crossings, move crossings, etc. They can't just take your 'public be darn' approach and do what they want. I'm sure NS will be throwing some money at the project if it does indeed mean they can improve speeds through the area.

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure CSX helped pay for a least part of the Randolph St underpass in Garrett. They, along with the town, benefited immensely when it was installed. Especially considering traffic on the Garrett Sub quadrupled overnight in 1999. No more blocking the road while trains re-crewed and departed, no more blocking the road when switching on the east end of the yard. Thankfully the railroads are taking a little bit more 'corporate responsible' approach to public relations then you propose.

Finally, its been mentioned its a 20 mph speed restriction through the area on the curves. That might be because of the lack of super elevation on them. Most, curves on the mainlines have some elevation to them. When they don't, thats when you have the speed restrictions. Perhaps by adding some elevation to the curves, they can then increase the speed over them.

Practice Safe CSX

[justalurker66]

Those abutments on the north side of the NS bridge have a single girder left in the center of the abutments. It's not an interurban line but the former Big Four mainline, which ran just north of the NYC Water Level Route starting on the north side of Goshen. This line stayed on the north, then the east side of NYC as both lines paralelled each other headed to Elkhart. At one time many years ago, the Big Four crossed the NYC at grade with a tower nearby on the near east side of Goshen. Then the Big Four headed due south. The southbound section is now part of NS's Marion Disrict after it curves away from the NS Chicago Line on the near east side of Goshen.

Thanks. I found a picture of them on a blog that claimed they were electric interurban remenants - and I was fairly certain that was not true. I looked up the former interurbans in a book I have and they ran to the south of the NYC line as I remember reading before.

I lose track of most of the former alignments and road names. Thanks for the memory.

[berkmeister]

I wish i had lived in the era of the tower and the diamonds there in East Goshen. At one time, the NYC, Big Four and the Pumpkin Vine branch from Middlebury had small yards next to each other south of East Lincoln Ave., east of Ninth St. and north of Logan St. Tiny yards they were, but there was lots of railroad activity in Goshen back then. The large, long former NYC freight station still exists along Logan St. near the Ninth St. intersection. Berkmeister

[rob46580]

I am lost on how the yard tracks will tie in with mains without CP 421, will there we a single yard lead off what is currently coach track??? in short, theres 2 mains plus siding east of 421, then you have 2 mains, coach north freight, and south freight west of 421. no way 5 tracks will go to 417. hmmm

[justalurker66]

I am lost on how the yard tracks will tie in with mains without CP 421, will there we a single yard lead off what is currently coach track??? in short, theres 2 mains plus siding east of 421, then you have 2 mains, coach north freight, and south freight west of 421. no way 5 tracks will go to 417. hmmm

There is also the Kalamazoo branch to consider. What I am expecting (and it is just my wild guess) is that the Track 1/Track 2 crossovers will be removed and the rest of the plant will be fairly similar to what is there today. If NS wants to eliminate all of the switches east of Main St (on the curve) then the yard lead to Track 2 can be removed back to the crossovers between the two yard leads.

CP-421 will still be there ... it has to be to support the Kalamazoo Branch (even if all the switches on Track 1 and Track 2 are removed there will need to be a CP for the diamond. Saying "CP-421 is going away" ignores the Kalamazoo Branch.

[GTW]

Anymore news on the work between Elkhart and Goshen---Thanks

[CSX_CO]

Anymore news on the work between Elkhart and Goshen---Thanks

Yup. All done. Four mains are installed, universal crossovers, new signaling, and they're running em like street cars 24 hrs a day.

Practice Safe CSX

[tadman]

this section of the Water Level Route was a 4 track mainline from just outside the west side of Ligoner to South Bend

Are you sure about that? I grew up in Mishawaka and I don't think there was ever four tracks through town. I could be wrong about that, but I've walked the line enough to know there's little evidence that there could be four tracks. Specifically, the ancient bridge over Baugo Creek is maybe 3 track widths max.

Again, I could be totally wrong about this and would like to learn more.

PS - here's a great site on South Bend railroads. Looks like there were three mains through Mishawaka circa 1906.
http://www.monon.monon.org/rr/nyc2.html

[GTW]

I am looking at the book New York Central Trackside w/photographs by Eugene Van Dusen. On page 57 is a shot of NYC 1754 westbound at what looks like the area around CP 412. In the photo are four tracks for your information.

[justalurker66]

I am looking at the book New York Central Trackside w/photographs by Eugene Van Dusen. On page 57 is a shot of NYC 1754 westbound at what looks like the area around CP 412. In the photo are four tracks for your information.

CP 412 is in Goshen ... tadman's comments were about Mishawaka.

[StupidFlee​t]

Yup. All done. Four mains are installed, universal crossovers, new signaling, and they're running em like street cars 24 hrs a day.

GR8 TRAINS KEEP THEM COMIN

[cbehr91]

Are you sure about that?

Before CTC in the late 50s the New York Central main would have alternated between 3 and 4 tracks.

[MaintainerGary]

CP-421 will still be there ... it has to be to support the Kalamazoo Branch (even if all the switches on Track 1 and Track 2 are removed there will need to be a CP for the diamond. Saying "CP-421 is going away" ignores the Kalamazoo Branch.

Throwing some more tidbits out there for the foamers to feed off of....

Kalamazoo branch will switch off of Track one.. The Amtrak station will be losing some sidewalk.... Hocus-Pocus - 421 will disappear.

[justalurker66]

CP-421 will still be there ... it has to be to support the Kalamazoo Branch (even if all the switches on Track 1 and Track 2 are removed there will need to be a CP for the diamond. Saying "CP-421 is going away" ignores the Kalamazoo Branch.

Throwing some more tidbits out there for the foamers to feed off of....

Kalamazoo branch will switch off of Track one.. The Amtrak station will be losing some sidewalk.... Hocus-Pocus - 421 will disappear.

Mostly. Even with a single switch off of a single main some part of the CP will remain. (Unless Kalamazoo is becoming a manual throw between two CPs. But that would stop track 1 traffic a long way back to allow for a train on the Kalamazoo line.)

I'll also be surprised if the connection from Track 2 to the yard is removed. I can understand losing the crossovers on the mains to simplify the track on the curve - but near complete removal of CP-421 would be a mistake.

[MaintainerGary]

but near complete removal of CP-421 would be a mistake.

That's like saying, "complete removal of the cancer from the body would be a mistake...."

[justalurker66]

but near complete removal of CP-421 would be a mistake.

That's like saying, "complete removal of the cancer from the body would be a mistake...."

Let us know how well it works when the east end of the yard has no exit because someone ripped up a little too much track.

A connection to Track 2 is useful when Track 3 is blocked. One could remove the worst of the plant ,,, the three eastern crossovers ... connecting the Kalamazoo branch to Track 1 instead of crossing to Track 2 means Kalamazoo trains would need to stay on the main to at least CP-423. The redundant connection to the yard from Track 2 could go away leaving just the westernmost connection in CP-421 (connecting the two yard tracks and Tracks 3 and 2) in play.

The trick with managing cancer is to take enough of the unwanted tissue out of the body without killing the patient. Since CP-421 cannot go away (the Kalamazoo connection ensures that) the southern tracks might as well be connected efficiently.