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UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:21 pm
by TSS
About 10 minutes ago, David Epling posted this to the California Railfans Facebook group: “Breaking: UP just lost an loaded ore train between Kelsey and Basin. Train was a runaway and derailed at 80mph. No word on the crew yet.”
Someone else clarified location: “He meant to say Kelso and probably got autocorrected. This is on the Cima Sub between Barstow and Las Vegas.”
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:38 pm
by LansingRailFan
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:47 pm
by Man o' War
This would be "late breaking news".
Man o' War
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:52 pm
by TSS
Man o' War wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:47 pm
This would be "late breaking news".
Man o' War
Yes, I see they a derailment happened there in 1997, and I have found no corroborating news reports yet for this afternoon’s supposed derailment. But people are chiming in on Dave’s post, adding they are hearing California Highway Patrol scanner traffic indicating approximately 100 cars derailed and a fire starting under one of the locomotives. So ????
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:00 pm
by LansingRailFan
TSS wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:21 pm
About 10 minutes ago, David Epling posted this to the California Railfans Facebook group: “Breaking: UP just lost an loaded ore train between Kelsey and Basin. Train was a runaway and derailed at 80mph. No word on the crew yet.”
Someone else clarified location: “He meant to say Kelso and probably got autocorrected. This is on the Cima Sub between Barstow and Las Vegas.”
first news article i could find:
https://news.yahoo.com/train-no-passeng ... p_catchall
also has links to tweets.
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:00 pm
by TSS
Confirmation this is actually happening today and not an accidental rebroadcast of past incidents at Kelso:
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:00 pm
by David Collins
This was just leaked from a UP employee, apparently this train was doing ~120 mph when it derailed. Who's ready for an unstoppable remake?
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:41 am
by R Bedell
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:06 am
by LansingRailFan
David Collins wrote: ↑Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:00 pm
This was just leaked from a UP employee, apparently this train was doing ~120 mph when it derailed. Who's ready for an unstoppable remake?
That screenshot is from a dd 12 miles away. the train continued to accelerate up to speeds in the range of 140-150 mph.
Supposedly, the crew was trying to put the train back together after it broke apart. The head end (2 engines, 55 cars) got out of control and the crew bailed when they realized they couldn't stop the train.
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:45 pm
by David Collins
LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:06 am
...the train continued to accelerate up to speeds in the range of 140-150 mph.
That is insane! What kind of grade were these guys going down? Saluda?
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:43 pm
by LansingRailFan
David Collins wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:45 pm
LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:06 am
...the train continued to accelerate up to speeds in the range of 140-150 mph.
That is insane! What kind of grade were these guys going down? Saluda?
I read somewhere it's about 2%
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:00 pm
by PatAzo
LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:06 am
the train continued to accelerate up to speeds in the range of 140-150 mph.
When I first read that I said "no way". However a little fact checking never hurts. Making some assumptions:
1) Ignoring friction a 238,000lb car on a 2% grade would exert a parallel force of 4,788lbs.
2) Assuming a rolling resistance of .002, the force due to friction would be 476lbs. Once moving, gravity would exert a net force of 4,312 lbs. I ignored force due to curves, track imperfections etc.
3) A 55 car cut would have a parallel force of 237,160lbs. Call it 57 cars with the two locomotives, 245,784lbs.
4) For wind resistance I found a presentation on coal trains. The cars in the wreck appeared to be ordinary open hoppers and hauling iron ore I said they would be effectively empty for wind resistance. Expanding the chart below and halving the 100 car value for a 55 car cut, wind resistance would be 130MPH = 193,252lbs. 140MPH = 224,126lbs. 150MPH = 257,288lbs.
I've ignored force due to curvature and any residual braking effect. I used the high side of charted rolling resistance. The numbers can be quibbled but the math shows the runaway cut in theory could attain a higher speed than I would have guessed.
Re: UP runaway derailment in California
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:53 pm
by LansingRailFan
PatAzo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:00 pm
LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:06 am
the train continued to accelerate up to speeds in the range of 140-150 mph.
When I first read that I said "no way". However a little fact checking never hurts. Making some assumptions:
1) Ignoring friction a 238,000lb car on a 2% grade would exert a parallel force of 4,788lbs.
2) Assuming a rolling resistance of .002, the force due to friction would be 476lbs. Once moving, gravity would exert a net force of 4,312 lbs. I ignored force due to curves, track imperfections etc.
3) A 55 car cut would have a parallel force of 237,160lbs. Call it 57 cars with the two locomotives, 245,784lbs.
4) For wind resistance I found a presentation on coal trains. The cars in the wreck appeared to be ordinary open hoppers and hauling iron ore I said they would be effectively empty for wind resistance. Expanding the chart below and halving the 100 car value for a 55 car cut, wind resistance would be 130MPH = 193,252lbs. 140MPH = 224,126lbs. 150MPH = 257,288lbs.
I've ignored force due to curvature and any residual braking effect. I used the high side of charted rolling resistance. The numbers can be quibbled but the math shows the runaway cut in theory could attain a higher speed than I would have guessed.
Thanks. I’ve seen internal UP screenshots of gps tracking of the locomotives that showed a speed of 147 mph.
There’s a train station a mile or so from the derailment and they have CC camera facing the tracks. Can’t wait for that footage to leak out.
