CSX St Clair Branch

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ConrailDetr​oit
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CSX St Clair Branch

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

How many trains run on this line per day or week. And the local that switches st clair :?:

I believe it would be coal that runs this line.

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trainjunkie47
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Unread post by trainjunkie47 »

I'm not sure exactly which businesses still get rail service, but there is a salt plant and the Ford Parts operation that both still get service. Coal is hardly all that CSX hauls there.

GreatLakesRailfan
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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

IIRC, CSX still carries a car or two of LPG on that line...in addition to the heavy coal and salt traffic that is... :)
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AARR
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Unread post by AARR »

CSX works the line daily from their new yard by Davis Rd. Here's what I show as active customers:
Marysville – MoPart
Marysville – Huntsman Polycom
Marysville – Marysville Underground Terminal: liquid petroleum gas
Marysville – Marysville Ethanol:
St. Clair – Spartech Polycom
St. Clair – Blue Water Plastics
St. Clair – Amoco: liquid petroleum gas
St. Clair – Cargill: bagged salt
Belle River – Detroit Edison: eastern coal
Just about all customers are switched daily except BWP and Edison
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Norm
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Unread post by Norm »

Don,

I say this in good spirit.

I don't know who is the better 'walking encyclopedia' of Michigan railroad information, you or Gregg. :lol:

Sure wish I had a job like yours that allowed for a lot of travel. Perhaps then, my pictures would number in the thousands. :wink:
Norm

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Unread post by Railnut »

As an added note..CSX does not run on Sundays on the old PH&D. I would say there is one locals that works both directions during the course of the day..plus a yard crew that goes on duty at Davis Rd and goes north to Port Huron to work the yard up there. And, or course, the Flint-Port Huron (and return) road train..which had been running daily for a while..I do not know the current schedule, though. Coal trains are as needed and run more in the winter.
And Don, it's MOPAR..not MoPart..LOL.
Dave C

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Unread post by RailsandTrucks »

Thanks as always to Don for the wonderful list :D from my understanding, the majority of the traffic on the line is LPG and Coal-which I believe picks up in the winter..

As for Cargill, last I knew, they didnt do a whole lot of business-that was 4 or so years ago mind you, so I really hope thats changed, as Salt used to be the bread and butter of the PH&D.

Chrysler seems to do a steady business. I used to go up there every other weekend or so last fall and this past winter while working a truck driver filling in on weekends. Seems like there were always cars there and chrysler provided steady business for the trucking company I worked for at the time.

Now Bluewater...... here's a sad story :( Dont know how much longer they are going to be switched, if they are still. They filed for Chapter 11 in feb. They have 4 or so plants in the St Clair area, with several being clustered on the northern edge of town. The one thats furthest south I believe is the smallest and doesnt get rail service from what I remember, its just north of where CSX goes into the neighborhood there.... (not far from the spur to cargill in fact) and sits along a siding (I think) I used deliver tooling there while working as driver/gopher/shipping/rec clerk at a warren mold making shop last fall and early winter.. Here's a link from the time's herald- looks like all of Bluewaters plants are due to close :(

http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/pbcs ... 80301/1002

If the link doesn't work, just cut and paste, I'm a little technology challenged when it comes to these boards as I do more observing then posting... Hopefully though someone will put those buildings to good use, it's sad as thats a nice area with alot of potential I would think...

As for the CSX yard at Davis road, its not nearly as accessible as thier old yard along the river in port huron was (thanks condo's :evil: ) but you can still see the power and be able to tell whats in there. I'm not sure how many engines are based out of there, but I believe its just one or two plus whatever road power CSX might be laying over (although, I'm not sure if they use actual trackage rights from flint to access port huron or Haulage rights up the mt clemens sub to do so, or a combination of both... so that would depend on what power would be in there)

CSX has based some pretty coloroful stuff there over the years, thier GP15T's were mainstays for a while, and MP15s would make an appearance as well. As did 2667 (the seaboard GP38 or 38-2)

Hope this info helps, and anyone (Don or others) feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with the info. I'd be up that way quite a bit in the fall and winter, but haven't had the chance to go up that way since the springtime....

Also, speaking of this time, does anyone know what time the davis yard job goes on duty?? I thougth it was a daytime job.... but I'm curious to know.. If my class schedule permits, I'd like to make a quick jaunt over there myself one fo these days..

Hope y'all are enjoying the holiday..........

Karl

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Unread post by RailsandTrucks »

Thanks Dave C, didn't see your post till after I clicked submit.. Good to know that they are still using trackage rights from flint.. Isnt this a night time run? Didnt know that they worked saturdays either... very cool.

Thanks!!

Karl

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Unread post by Railnut »

Karl,

The westbound road train used to depart Port Huron (Tappan) between 8-10pm when I railfanned Port Huron back in "the day" (2002-2007)..which means it would go on duty at Davis Rd around 6am. The eastbound used to come into Tappan around 7pm. Things may have changed..Matt, you have any clues??
As far as I know..CSX traffic on the CN MtC sub goes to Sarnia..everything from Port Huron (IIRC) goes to Flint then south.
Local power would usually be 3 or 4 units...the "St Clair sisters" (GP15T's 1523 & 1524) and a GP38-2 or 2. Occasionaly they had an MP15 or a GP40-2. For a short time we were graced with the presence of 2 of the GE "sleds"..but I dont recall ever seeing them move.
Typical schedule (post "Boat yard" days):

7 or 8 am the Q331 would come into Port Huron and call GTW TD3 for clearance onto the Flint sub at Tappan.

8-10am- the "Port Huron yard Job" would come into Port Huron to work the old PH&D yards and switch around the blocks the Q330 had set out the night before for the local to pick up.

11am-1pm- the local would make it to Port Huron to turn and head back south for St Clair. While in PtH, they make a setout (when assigned) and make a pickup of cars for for customers to the south. The local may also get roped into assisting the yard job in switching cars at Port Huron.

2-4 pm, the local heads back south for St Clair

5-6pm, the "Yard job" heads back to St Clair with cars for the next mornings westbound to Flint.

7-9pm- the Q330 comes into Tappan..makes a set out or 2 in the old PH&D yards..then heads to St Clair to tie down.

This is based off observations after the boat yard was shut down. I should mention that after the boat yard closed..operations changed very little.
Hope this helps!!! Dave C

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AARR
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Unread post by AARR »

Last I heard Cargill almost stopped shipping by rail then picked up again and ships out bagged salt almost daily...but it's possible it changed again.

I'm told LPG is large and steady while coal is seasonal although the two are about equal in number of cars annually (about 10,000 each).

I'm relying on other people for this info who have some inside knowledge but things can change and they may not be aware of it which will make my stuff inaccurate.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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conrailmike
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Unread post by conrailmike »

Don Simon wrote:Last I heard Cargill almost stopped shipping by rail then picked up again and ships out bagged salt almost daily...but it's possible it changed again.

I'm told LPG is large and steady while coal is seasonal although the two are about equal in number of cars annually (about 10,000 each).

I'm relying on other people for this info who have some inside knowledge but things can change and they may not be aware of it which will make my stuff inaccurate.
I see quite a few Cargill cars on the grain trains on the saginaw sub, are those for salt or do those go farther north for grain?

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Unread post by RailCanon »

Just a little note, Q330 and Q331 do not run anymore. They've been replaced with a local from Flint symboled D710.

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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

conrailmike wrote:
Don Simon wrote:Last I heard Cargill almost stopped shipping by rail then picked up again and ships out bagged salt almost daily...but it's possible it changed again.

I'm told LPG is large and steady while coal is seasonal although the two are about equal in number of cars annually (about 10,000 each).

I'm relying on other people for this info who have some inside knowledge but things can change and they may not be aware of it which will make my stuff inaccurate.
I see quite a few Cargill cars on the grain trains on the saginaw sub, are those for salt or do those go farther north for grain?
From my observations, the salt shipments are actually boxcars, not CHs. The CHs go farther north for grain shipments. I've seen Cargill CHs in Marlette, Brown City and Carrollton to name a few places that might get those Cargill CHs you've seen.
~ Charles W.

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AARR
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Unread post by AARR »

Cargill Salt in St. Clair only ships bagged salt in box cars. I think someone reported the bulk loading track (for covered hoppers) was removed.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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conrailmike
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Unread post by conrailmike »

Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up guys.

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AARR
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Unread post by AARR »

Just a little note, Q330 and Q331 do not run anymore.
JUST GIVE IT UP CSX AND LET CN HAVE IT OR SELL TO A SHORT LINE :!: :wink:
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Unread post by Railnut »

I wonder why they were replaced by a local..those trains from Port Huron can, sometimes, be in excess of 80 cars!
CSX should sell it back to the Duffy's and have the PH&D rise again....imagine GP38's in PH&D paint.....specificaly the box car scheme...and having Davis Rd yard worked by an ALCo S2...
I would rather not like to see CN get the PH&D...how about the HESR...then have the HESR put rails back in between Tappan and Avoca so trains can run to Saginaw from Port Huron..........aw..who am I kidding.
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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Don Simon wrote:
Just a little note, Q330 and Q331 do not run anymore.
JUST GIVE IT UP CSX AND LET CN HAVE IT OR SELL TO A SHORT LINE :!: :wink:
A couple years ago I remember someone close to CSX mentioned that the old PH&D is one of the most profitable pieces of property CSX owns within a pretty large area. I can't imagine they'd give it up without a long and drawn out fight. As far as the Q trains vs. the current local movements go, there might be something in the crew agreements or the actual work performed by the train (or the potential work the train could do) that had a heavy influence on the change in symbols.
~ Charles W.

ConrailDetr​oit
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Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

So they refine salt and package it at Cargill, correct :?:

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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

I don't know if they refine it so much as they mine it. From what I've been told, there are some HUGE salt deposits under St. Clair and other parts of the metro Detroit area. However, I'm not familiar with the process of refining salt so I can't say for sure if that's part of the operations in St. Clair.

(3-20-2023) Edit to update information I didn't have when I made the post 15 years ago: Neither the Diamond Crystal/Cargill plant in Saint Clair nor the Morton Salt plant that used to be in Marysville had an actual shaft for mining salt- both used wells to inject water into the salt deposits then pumped the salt brine to the surface for refining/packaging. There's some interesting information about the process available elsewhere on the internet.
Last edited by GreatLakesRailfan on Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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