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Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:21 am
by David Collins
Two of NS' SD70M-2's arrived in Bellevue yesterday without PRLX markings, this is a big deal since these units have sat in storage for close to three years and were thought to be retired off the roster.
Word on the street is that 10-20 will return to service, unfortunately it sounds like they're gonna be sent out to the UP for horsepower hours. There is no date as to when they'll officially re-enter service.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:08 pm
by SD80MAC
Massive piles of garbage. I hope for the UP crews sake they are trail or DPU only.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:24 am
by Talk
They ran 2 through Alabama and 4 out of roanoke, va going away from the UP
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:43 am
by David Collins
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:08 pm
Massive piles of garbage. I hope for the UP crews sake they are trail or DPU only.
If you wouldn't mind, could you please elaborate as to why they're bad?
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:33 am
by penn central
David Collins wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:43 am
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:08 pm
Massive piles of garbage. I hope for the UP crews sake they are trail or DPU only.
If you wouldn't mind, could you please elaborate as to why they're bad?
I wonder what CN crews think of there fleet of SD70M-2s?
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:55 am
by amessmann
penn central wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:33 am
I wonder what CN crews think of there fleet of SD70M-2s?
IIRC M-2s are known to have electrical issues, as to what or why, I have never been able to find information.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:55 am
by SD80MAC
The SD70ACes and SD70M-2s without isolated cabs suffer from severe vibrations that make the operating cabs practically inhospitable at certain RPMs. EMD came out with some software updates for them to address it but the severe vibration was never fully resolved. They’re so bad that BNSF banned all of their early, non-isolated cab SD70ACes from leading trains around 10 years ago (still to this day), making them trailing or DPU units only. NS’s SD70M-2s and CN’s 8000 and 8800-8849 units suffer from the same problem. Ask any NS or CN engineer what they think of non-isolated cab 70M-2s! The NS units also had several electrical problems, which is why they were among the first units stored and sold off when NS went on their PSR kick.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:46 am
by Schteinkuh
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:55 am
The SD70ACes and SD70M-2s without isolated cabs suffer from severe vibrations that make the operating cabs practically inhospitable at certain RPMs. EMD came out with some software updates for them to address it but the severe vibration was never fully resolved. They’re so bad that BNSF banned all of their early, non-isolated cab SD70ACes from leading trains around 10 years ago (still to this day), making them trailing or DPU units only. NS’s SD70M-2s and CN’s 8000 and 8800-8849 units suffer from the same problem. Ask any NS or CN engineer what they think of non-isolated cab 70M-2s! The NS units also had several electrical problems, which is why they were among the first units stored and sold off when NS went on their PSR kick.
Not only do they rattle, they relentlessly squeak and croak with every little bump. Loud engine noise is one thing, but all the extra annoyances make it headache enducing
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:48 pm
by amessmann
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:55 am
EMD came out with some software updates for them to address it but the severe vibration was never fully resolved.
Fascinating but it makes sense to me, any first hand experience at how much the software tweaks helped fix things?
Any idea what was tweaked in the software? I imagine engine speeds at the different notches were adjusted to minimize resonance.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:25 am
by David Collins
Thanks for your insight SD80MAC.
NS will be bringing all 46 units out of storage, some for horsepower hours or west and some for use on the NS system.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:36 pm
by patrick
aside from the cab, are the M-2s decent running reliable units? seems like BNSF, Cn and NS would get with EMD/Progress and work through a cab replacment program of some sort to either fix the cabs or replace them entirely with the newer isolated cab that is better for the crew ( oh thats right, that'd mean management needed to care about crews
) just my thought
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:21 pm
by redcrumbox
David Collins wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:43 am
If you wouldn't mind, could you please elaborate as to why they're bad?
I heard the toilet ventilation is akin to going into a porta-jon baking in the summer sun keeping the whole cab freshened.
Schteinkuh wrote: ↑Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:46 am
Not only do they rattle, they relentlessly squeak and croak with every little bump. Loud engine noise is one thing, but all the extra annoyances make it headache enducing
One engineer described the M-2 cab as like "being in a dumpster with two guys pounding sledgehammers against the sides".
Those two are gonna need some horns if they are returning to sevice.
Old EMD’s are the gift that keeps on giving.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:46 pm
by SD80MAC
patrick wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:36 pm
aside from the cab, are the M-2s decent running reliable units? seems like BNSF, Cn and NS would get with EMD/Progress and work through a cab replacment program of some sort to either fix the cabs or replace them entirely with the newer isolated cab that is better for the crew ( oh thats right, that'd mean management needed to care about crews
) just my thought
Cost prohibitive. Easier to make them B units.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2023 5:39 pm
by patrick
just read the other day supposedly NS is going to do an AC upgrade to the M-2s in the near future. guess we'll see if that holds out to be true.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:19 am
by CSXT9040
One of the M-2s returned to service is being held captive on B10 runs, bad for the crew but a good treat for us railfans
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:38 pm
by David Collins
It appears that these units are only being used on locals as of right now, seems really weird given the fact that they were supposed to be used as horsepower hour units. Maybe they're just breaking them in after being stored for so long?
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:19 pm
by CSXT9040
David Collins wrote: ↑Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:38 pm
It appears that these units are only being used on locals as of right now, seems really weird given the fact that they were supposed to be used as horsepower hour units. Maybe they're just breaking them in after being stored for so long?
A few have made their way onto road freights, it seems they’re slowly making their way across the system
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 2:21 pm
by David Collins
Caught one in Bellevue this morning, #2762. I never thought I'd see an NS painted M-2 leading a road freight again.
I kinda miss the old first generation K5LLA's, they sounded really cool. This particular unit had a mixed cast P5, which is interesting.
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Fri May 05, 2023 2:30 pm
by David Collins
patrick wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:36 pm
aside from the cab, are the M-2s decent running reliable units?
I recently made an acquaintance with a veteran NS engineer, and I asked him about his thoughts on the M-2's. He said they're really good loaders, they've got good dynamics and have good performance.
He did say however that the vibrations are
REALLY bad and they are VERY loud. He also said that the K5LLA horn only makes it worse (he called it just a plain ol' noisemaker).
Re: Norfolk Southern returning SD70M-2's to service
Posted: Fri May 12, 2023 1:13 pm
by joeyuboats
My son just sent me a text, saying that NS is leasing 30 SD70MAC locos, from Wells Fargo Leasing, that were ex BNSF locos. Why would NS have locos, sell or scrap locos, then have to LEASE locos.?? Not too bright.