RailRoadFan.com

I know we have a few railroaders on this website, so I thought this would be a good place to ask this question, what is a trip optimizer?

There's a few references to trip optimizer here on the site for how it's been used. Also Google states this: Trip Optimizer is an easy-to-use control system that allows the crew or dispatcher to achieve on-time arrival with the least possible fuel use. Optimal driving solutions are computed onboard and executed in a closed loop using GPS-based navigation. Train and track parameters are adapted online to reduce model errors.

I had once heard the Trip Optimizer (T.O) can also have some negative "side effects" whereas trains not being able to operate at the maximum authorized speed because the TO equipment was saving fuel. Also, I have heard on a couple of occasions on the scanner where the engineer was complaining about the TO affecting his train, in a negative way, as he was trying to get his train over the Saugatuck Hill at mp CG32.5

Basically it’s an autopilot (layman's term) for the train. The Trip Optimizer has the route profile built into it (grades, speed restrictions etc). The engineer will enter his train info in regards to locomotives, horsepower, length, and weight. The Trip Optimizer will then tell the engineer what throttle position he needs to be in in order to maximize fuel economy. Sounds good, but in reality all it does is slow trains down to the point that they die en route when they wouldn’t otherwise.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:48 am

...The Trip Optimizer will then tell the engineer what throttle position he needs to be in in order to maximize fuel economy.

Can it control the throttle/brake inputs or is it all manual inputs by the engineer? I'm asking this because one time I was waiting on a NS 14N on the Chicagoline and the engineer called the road foreman on the scanner and said:

"We're on a 30 Mph diamond right now, but the trip optimizer had us in dynamic braking, we're doing 12 miles per hour right now, we don't have any speed restrictions, I do have DPU's, I advised PTC before calling you and I just took over to get the speed up since we're about to hit the DD at 282.9"

When he says "I just took over" does that mean he disengaged it or something else?

T.O. doesn’t run the train, but tells the engineer what to do. The engineer will be penalized if he doesn’t follow the T.O. commands. Sometimes if it really goofs up, the engineer can take back over if the situation warrants.

Trip Optimizer has always run the train, all the engineer has to do is get the train moving up to 12 MPH and press a button. After that TO will run the train using throttle modulation, power, and dynamic brakes. The preferred method per CSX rules is throttle modulation. It will slow down 8 miles out from a speed restriction to keep from using dynamic brakes. When approaching interlocking where power switches are involved it will ask 2 miles out what track you will be taking at the switches. You manually have to take over under 10 MPH. This was before the integration with PTC, now it still does everything else, but it now it knows the position of the switches, and does not need to ask the route. Coming soon and in testing TO will run the train from 0 MPH to 0 MPH.

The future sd70accsx700 spoke of is arriving…

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... p-feature/

Bringing this thread back, I got video and scanner audio of NS 269 having some sort of Trip Optimizer issue, and they made it to Chicago without a T/O. I don’t fully understand what the issue was, can someone enlighten me?

https://youtu.be/RqPDzSgZPFc?si=e_vz39wgFlqhd851

TO is not like autopilot. It’s more like self driving teslas. It can manage certain things but not everything. It has zero control over air. It can only control throttle and dynamics. It also doesn’t function well under 12 MPH. It is a great tool, but it’s just a tool. As a conductor, I’d rather have a good engineer behind the controls than have that crap run my train 15 MPH under the speed limits and complain about every hill.

How does TO account for things like track conditions (wet, covered with leaves, ect) when calculating speed and braking for a train? Does it take into account the weather around a train (different temperature and humidity conditions can impact the engine performance can't they)?

Does the engineer have to input the individual cars on a train or just the total tonnage? Location of different cars on a train can impact the train handling charecteristics, especially on unleven terrain correct.

chapmaja wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 27, 2023 12:22 pm

How does TO account for things like track conditions (wet, covered with leaves, ect) when calculating speed and braking for a train? Does it take into account the weather around a train (different temperature and humidity conditions can impact the engine performance can't they)?

Does the engineer have to input the individual cars on a train or just the total tonnage? Location of different cars on a train can impact the train handling charecteristics, especially on unleven terrain correct.

It accounts for track conditions by guessing. LOL. TBH, it really doesn't account for anything not in the computer system such as grade, speed, curvature, etc. Sometimes it doesn't even account for restrictions that should have sync'd with the system.

The only things entered that I have ever seen are train length, tonnage, operative brakes, and equipment speed restrictions. There are other things that get pulled in such as how many engines and if they are online or not, but that is done prior to departure. TO is supposed to sync with PTC for consist data, but sometimes it does have to be modified. It does not care about location of cars or what the size of each car is. It has zero control over air (for now) so really can't do anything other than apply throttle or dynamics.

Now you understand why I would rather have a good engineer at the controls than a computer that is making an educated guess.