Life after Geeps

[bctrainfan]

Looks like the various EMD GP models are still doing a lot of the work in yards, locals, shortlines, etc. I realize that many still have a long serviceable life ahead with overhauls, repowering, and so forth, but there must come a time when they'll just be too old and worn (like me ) What will take their place? Obviously big new fancy 6 axle road engines can't. Will it be the Gensets? Or will EMD or GE bring out new 4 axles similar to the Geeps?

[AARR]

Current Trans Mag has a ok article about how with the latest technologies 6-axle units are taking the place of duties that in the past were performed almost exclusivley by 4-axle units.

[Mr. Tops]

6 axles will not be able to replace all 4 axles. They can in yards and some local service but some industrial tracks will not accommodate their weight/turning radius. Look for gensets to ultimately replace 4 axles. But it will be many many years before the 4 axles we know fade away. Right now, SD40-2s and the like are used for yard service commonly, as they offer more tractive effort than 4 axles. But the short answer to the next "generation" of 4 axles is gensets...

[AARR]

6 axles will not be able to replace all 4 axles. They can in yards and some local service but some industrial tracks will not accommodate their weight/turning radius. Look for gensets to ultimately replace 4 axles. But it will be many many years before the 4 axles we know fade away. Right now, SD40-2s and the like are used for yard service commonly, as they offer more tractive effort than 4 axles. But the short answer to the next "generation" of 4 axles is gensets...

Gensets use many components from the original units. Although I am not sure what those components may be. But whatever those are, will there come a point in time they cannot be resused anymore?

[AC60CW]

A genset from what I understand is still just a more extreme rebuild though. At least all of the ones I have seen are complete overhauls of older chassis and bodies.

[Mr. Tops]

The only component(s) that I am aware of that are reused are the frame and trucks, although the trucks may come from another source - they are generally reused as well. Both of these components can be reused over and over until they begin to rust/corrode.

[Saturnalia]

I doubt they'll ever go away. In aviation, they said DC 3s and 4 s would be gone in the 80s. But, they're still flying for Buffalo Airways in The Canadian Northwest Territories. in short......someone will always be running them as long as there is diesel for them. They'll be preserved much like steam has

[Mr. Tops]

And who would've thought 60-70 years ago that diesels would replace steam? Don't be so sure unless you can predict the future. Sure, there will always be diesels; there's still steam...but not in revenue service (in the US). They will be around for years and years, but one day when the GEVO's are old and dying, being cut up for scrap or sent to Mexico, who knows what will replace them? Diesels? Gensets (I suppose they're still diesels...sigh)? Electric? Solar? LOL. STEAM??

[Saturnalia]

And who would've thought 60-70 years ago that diesels would replace steam? Don't be so sure unless you can predict the future. Sure, there will always be diesels; there's still steam...but not in revenue service (in the US). They will be around for years and years, but one day when the GEVO's are old and dying, being cut up for scrap or sent to Mexico, who knows what will replace them? Diesels? Gensets (I suppose they're still diesels...sigh)? Electric? Solar? LOL. STEAM??

FUSION Power...........the nerds are still working on it, but if we as humans can crack the code, it promises limitless, clean, not radioactive power.

[Mr. Tops]

[bnsfben]

I think we will see more locomotives similar to the BNSF ES44C4's where technology will determine when to use and when not to use those extra two axles.

[Mr. Tops]

I think we will see more locomotives similar to the BNSF ES44C4's where technology will determine when to use and when not to use those extra two axles.

Yes, but this discussion is about the next "generation" of power; not what will be happening to the current line of eco-friendly diesels in the next few years. Railroads are already starting to equip their new power with trip optimizers that will eventually be an auto pilot type system. Max speeds, premanent speed restrictions, etc, etc. and even temporary restrictions will be pre-programmed into the computer. I'm not sure if it will be a full auto pilot deal, or if it will just offer a suggested operating method. At UP, we already have a pre-calculated number (equivalent powered axles) that tells us how many units we are allowed to have online. QNLPIJ will come up from Salem with 3 units, 1 of which is online, the NS 10E crew will get on it at Villa Grove and put all 3 units online. Someone got paid mucho dinero for that one...meanwhile, UP is wondering why all of their locomotives are breaking down/blowing up...GEE, it wouldn't be because your trying to pull a 10,000 ton train up a .5% grade with one unit, would it? Naa, probably just an under-qualified engineer that pushed the wrong button...

[AARR]

QNLPIJ will come up from Salem with 3 units, 1 of which is online, the NS 10E crew will get on it at Villa Grove and put all 3 units online. Someone got paid mucho dinero for that one...meanwhile, UP is wondering why all of their locomotives are breaking down/blowing up...GEE, it wouldn't be because your trying to pull a 10,000 ton train up a .5% grade with one unit, would it? Naa, probably just an under-qualified engineer that pushed the wrong button...

I wonder about all these train being operatd with one unit and if there will be consequences for them.

[SD80MAC]

I've always thought it would make more sense to run 2-3 units at notch 4 or lower than have 1 puking it's guts out in notch 8 all day.

[12Bridge]

Its amazing to see a charted fuel curve for any of these large engines once you get above a certain notch (RPM)...its actually kinda scary...

[Saturnalia]

It would make sense to me to have the ability to control all locos in the consist independently, running them like gensets

[Mr. Tops]

Our local manager proclaims there is a big difference between notch 7 and 8. Fuel consumption goes up, but power does not. Not sure how much truth there is behind this, but he has convinced some engineers to not use notch 8 anymore. This isn't a rule like the aformentioned EPA is, but he tries to enforce it like it is. He will ding guys for excessive fuel consumption. Between these types of policies and Fuel Masters, it is a pathetic show to watch.

Hot UPS trains doing 50 mph when they could be doing 60, but because of yet another fuel saving technique enforced by UP, all trains (unless specifically relieved by track bulletin) are "FCS 50"; FCS stands for Fuel Conservation Speed. Under FCS 50, any train doing 50mph or more cannot be in a higher notch than 5. So once you hit 50, you notch back to 5 and sit back. If 50, 51, 52 is all your doing, that's as fast as you're going to go. Granted, you may hit 60 going downhill, but when you could be kissing 60 the whole trip, you may only get to flirt with it 2 or 3 times with FCS. All in the name of fuel conservation. Coal trains are "FCS 40"; same deal, except once they hit 40mph, you are done with notches 6-8. Freight trains are usually exempt, only by default as they are generally limited to 50 mph anyhow.

Fuel Masters is a program that engineers can enroll in and this compnay will keep track of how much fuel each engineer uses. Every month, the numbers are added up and a list comes out with all the engineers in that terminal listed from who used the least amount of fuel, to who used the most fuel. The first half-dozen-ish guys get a monetary reward, which goes directly onto their Fuel Masters debit card. Sometimes, upwards of $500 will be handed out to the first guy, with each person down the list getting a smaller sum, sometimes up to 10-12 guys will get money, even if it is only $5. This program acts as an incentive to save fuel.

The railroad is not interested in running trains anymore, they are interested in saving fuel, saving money. It's all a game. For some reason, it reminds me of the movie "Rat Race". All the big wigs are in the back room placing bets. "Ha! I told you we could move 10,000 tons of freight 300 miles using only 500 gallons of fuel! Now, who wants to go in on how long it will take to fix the engine they blew up doing it!?"

[Mr. Tops]

It would make sense to me to have the ability to control all locos in the consist independently, running them like gensets

We do, it's called isolating them. Granted you can't do it from the cab yet. Walk back there, flip the isolation switch from run to isolate, or vice versa. I think though, that this is a part of the new "trip optimizer". It will automatically bring units online when needed, and isolate them when they're not. Same concept as before, just a bit more technologically advanced. Sometimes we will work the system and when we have two units, but are only allowed to have one online (the other is running/isolated), especially coming south out of Chicago, we will run two units online until we get south of Chicago Heights, which is the ruling grade on our territory, .8% coming south up to the EJ&E; after that, we will go back and isolate the 2nd unit, so we are compliant. Otherwise, you will be crawling, sometimes 10mph or less...and they don't want you to be above notch 4 going over diamonds. Ha! Call the helpers now! Yeah, we usually throw that out the window there, too.

Especially so being that the Chicago Heights interlocking is controlled by CN Desk 11. We have to call them to get the signal across the EJ&E. If they hold us for one of their trains when we are coming south, we have to stop right at the base of the .8% grade, so when we finally do get the signal, we need all the power, all the notches we can get to get up the hill. Unfortunate for CN as I believe they are responsible for the maintenance on the diamond as well. We tear the hell out of that diamond when they stop us coming south and then we have to grind uphill from a standstill. If they keep us moving, we can use momentum from the .4% downgrade just before the .8% uphill.

[Saturnalia]

It would make sense to me to have the ability to control all locos in the consist independently, running them like gensets

We do, it's called isolating them. Granted you can't do it from the cab yet. Walk back there, flip the isolation switch from run to isolat, or vice versa. I think though, that this is a part of the new "trip optimizer". It will automatically bring units online when needed, and isolate them when they're not. Same concept as before, just a bit more technologically advanced. Sometimes we will work the system and when we have two units, but are only allowed to have one online (the other is running/isolated), especially coming south out of Chicago, we will run two units online until we get south of Chicago Heights, which is the ruling grade on our territory, .8% coming south up to the EJ&E. Otherwise, you will be crawling, sometimes 10mph or less...and they don't want you to be above notch 4 going over diamonds. Ha! Call the helpers now! Yeah, we usually throw that out the window there, too...

But arent you unable to isolate while the train is moving? And yes, my main point was that it would be automatic, as determined by the on-board computer........maybe there would be some way to tie PTC into all of this.

[12Bridge]

For a 38-2 theres about a 20 gallon per hour difference between notch 7 and 8. Thats about 60$ an hour saved. Do the math.

Its about a 30 gallon difference with an SD40-2.