Dispatching styles and the “RN”
Dispatching styles and the “RN”
When I was in high school (1994-98), I listened to the scanner a lot. I grew up near Fargo, ND and mostly heard the BN dispatchers working western Minnesota and eastern North Dakota.
As I remember it, the BN dispatchers were in charge, always. The attitude was “I am the dispatcher, I will tell you what to do and when to do it.” Of course, the good dispatchers listened to crew suggestions and changed plans if a crew said something was unworkable. But dispatchers were solidly in charge.
It seemed very different when I started listening to the CSX in Michigan around 2017. The RN desk seemed collaborative, to the point of being deferential to train crews. It seemed strange, having trains telling the dispatcher what would happen.
Has anyone else gotten the same impression? Is it like this all over the CSX? Or just on the RN?
I’ve pondered this a number of times, and it came to mind again when a new dispatcher showed up recently on the RN. “SFP” is in the mold of the old-school, in-charge dispatchers I remember.
As I remember it, the BN dispatchers were in charge, always. The attitude was “I am the dispatcher, I will tell you what to do and when to do it.” Of course, the good dispatchers listened to crew suggestions and changed plans if a crew said something was unworkable. But dispatchers were solidly in charge.
It seemed very different when I started listening to the CSX in Michigan around 2017. The RN desk seemed collaborative, to the point of being deferential to train crews. It seemed strange, having trains telling the dispatcher what would happen.
Has anyone else gotten the same impression? Is it like this all over the CSX? Or just on the RN?
I’ve pondered this a number of times, and it came to mind again when a new dispatcher showed up recently on the RN. “SFP” is in the mold of the old-school, in-charge dispatchers I remember.
- SD80MAC
- Ingersoll's Mr. Michigan
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
Good dispatchers work with crews, who know their territory, to come up with the best moves. I doubt there is anyone left on the RN desk that has ever even seen the Grand Rapids or Plymouth subs in person.
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
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- C&O Dispatcher
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
I only dispatched for CSX while still in Saginaw before they moved the work to Jacksonville in 1988, so I cannot speak directly to your question. However, I was working for BNSF in the IA/IL Quad Cities area when they consolidated dispatching to Ft Worth around 1995. After the move, I noticed that I was hearing the same dispatchers I had heard working in Galesburg still working their same territory from Ft Worth. That was smart on BNSF's part. When CSX consolidated dispatching in Jacksonville, they just put all of the jobs up for bid and it was a free-for-all with most of the dispatchers ending up on territory they had never probably heard of, let along worked before! It's one of many reasons I chose not to make the move in 1988. Before I started dispatching for Chessie in 1976, I had the advantage of working almost every tower and depot on the Saginaw Division as well as making road trips on trains and hi-rail vehicles over all of the subdivisions. Obviously, that's not possible anymore. It's an extremely false narrative for management to think that just because someone has dispatching skills, they can be anywhere near proficient on territory they have only seen on video (or not at all) and have little to no personal experience with the crews or first-hand knowledge of its physical characteristics. Like SD80MAC said, good dispatchers work with the crews. However, the more familiar a dispatcher is with the territory, the crews and the operational challenges, the better they can "run the railroad" in cooperation with the crews.
Last edited by C&O Dispatcher on Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
Good points, all.
In the early hours of this morning, a dispatcher asked D700, “Where is Coloma?”
In the early hours of this morning, a dispatcher asked D700, “Where is Coloma?”
- SD80MAC
- Ingersoll's Mr. Michigan
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
That makes me happy!
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
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- Jetlink
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
I liked some of the original posts on here better.
interested in trains
Patiently waiting for LansingRailfan to antagonize me in his tagline
Patiently waiting for LansingRailfan to antagonize me in his tagline
- LansingRailFan
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
Having worked towers, dispatching as a craft dispatcher, and chief dispatcher, I can say there is a different style of dispatching these days. When I was a chief, I had good dispatchers who were left alone, and dispatchers who I watched like a hawk. However they were still given the freedom to dispatch. As technology advances, the role of a good dispatcher is hard to find, as more time is spent utilizing the technology and less time is spent learning the railroad. Larger territories also decrease the creative ability of even the best dispatchers.
The dispatcher is cool.
Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
All replies are right on point. Use to be dispatchers were former towerman who knew the territory and train operation. Now, for the most part, new dispatchers are fresh off the street, know very little about the operation of a railroad because most T&E employees don't want any part of being a dispatcher. Centralized dispatcher offices allow disps to bid on jobs that they are not familiar with at all. Computers have taken away a lot of things dispatchers had to figure out & plan for themselves. I was a train dispatcher for the PC and Conrail and am so happy to be retired.
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- Roadmaster
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
It's not just dispatching. I've been designing civil transportation infrastructure for over 45 years. Today's young engineers know al the fancy cad stuff but fail to visualize what they draw. Looked sat one this week. 24 inch storm sewer. Immediate red flags went off. Short stretch of road. 24 inch is a big pipe for short residential street. Dig deeper, 22 acres draining to the road when the contour lines show about 7 at the very most. Ask him to check it, down sizes the pond outlet pipe, road pipe is the same Duh???? Do some quick math on a cross culvert. The asphalt will need to be laid n the top of the pipe, no room for gravel . This isn't a tech just doing what the engineer says, it's the engineer. I sent it back to him again. "Are you sure this is correct?". I refuse to design it for him, that's what his client is paying for. The client can pay me if I end up designing it.GTWTD3 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:03 pmHaving worked towers, dispatching as a craft dispatcher, and chief dispatcher, I can say there is a different style of dispatching these days. When I was a chief, I had good dispatchers who were left alone, and dispatchers who I watched like a hawk. However they were still given the freedom to dispatch. As technology advances, the role of a good dispatcher is hard to find, as more time is spent utilizing the technology and less time is spent learning the railroad. Larger territories also decrease the creative ability of even the best dispatchers.
- justalurker66
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
How much planning work is needed by a CSX dispatcher serving Michigan in 2020?
I see old school dispatchers as the kind who could thread a high priority train past slower trains without congesting their entire territory or their neighboring dispatcher's territories (whether that neighbor worked for their railroad or not). A lot more trains moving than today with no automation and less remote control - depending on how far back your "old school" goes. Their remote control was a phone line to a tower operator letting them know what to do when the next train arrived. Their automation was having a regular list of trains where often the same patterns were followed every day.
With decreased traffic levels how tight of a reign does the dispatcher need? As long as the trains can move and get to where they are going the dispatch job is done. The need for micro-management is not as present as "back in the day".
I see old school dispatchers as the kind who could thread a high priority train past slower trains without congesting their entire territory or their neighboring dispatcher's territories (whether that neighbor worked for their railroad or not). A lot more trains moving than today with no automation and less remote control - depending on how far back your "old school" goes. Their remote control was a phone line to a tower operator letting them know what to do when the next train arrived. Their automation was having a regular list of trains where often the same patterns were followed every day.
With decreased traffic levels how tight of a reign does the dispatcher need? As long as the trains can move and get to where they are going the dispatch job is done. The need for micro-management is not as present as "back in the day".
- SD80MAC
- Ingersoll's Mr. Michigan
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
The biggest challenge with the RN desk is the size of the territory. All of CSX in Michigan. Not many trains, sure, but they have a LOT of MOW, track inspectors, maintainers etc to deal with.justalurker66 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:48 pmHow much planning work is needed by a CSX dispatcher serving Michigan in 2020?
I see old school dispatchers as the kind who could thread a high priority train past slower trains without congesting their entire territory or their neighboring dispatcher's territories (whether that neighbor worked for their railroad or not). A lot more trains moving than today with no automation and less remote control - depending on how far back your "old school" goes. Their remote control was a phone line to a tower operator letting them know what to do when the next train arrived. Their automation was having a regular list of trains where often the same patterns were followed every day.
With decreased traffic levels how tight of a reign does the dispatcher need? As long as the trains can move and get to where they are going the dispatch job is done. The need for micro-management is not as present as "back in the day".
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
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- RedNeck Train Chaser
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
I work as a dispatcher now since I got furloughed as a engineer when the Rona started tanking things. I couldn't imagine working as a dispatcher without my prior knowledge of the territory, understanding where the grades are, where to hold the trains, what fits where, exactly how many minutes between signals it takes for the train to drop the next one. I've had crews mention it's obvious when I'm working because I won't hold crews I keep em moving. There are some that don't even know what the railroad looks like other than on the computer screen. For the most part everyone is fairly self directed and we just guide them over the TWC, CTC and 6.28 territories. Now I don't work for CSX their territorys are much larger than what we control but the same principles would apply about siding lenghts, grades, time it takes between locations.
Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
Cute. Wrong, but still cute. I guess you have not lurked in a dispatch office before.justalurker66 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:48 pm.
As long as the trains can move and get to where they are going the dispatch job is done.
Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
Holy Hell, that's alot of territory on 3rd.
The dispatcher is cool.
Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
- Doktor No
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Re: Dispatching styles and the “RN”
No rest for the wicked Typhoon!
And Fred, I left the road to be a yard rat. Then a remote control yard rat. (remote control, most STUPID thing they ever came up with!) And now darn glad to be retired, 6 years, 7 months and 11 days, not that I'm counting.
And Fred, you must have know Conrail Barb, our Chicago West nemesis.
And Fred, I left the road to be a yard rat. Then a remote control yard rat. (remote control, most STUPID thing they ever came up with!) And now darn glad to be retired, 6 years, 7 months and 11 days, not that I'm counting.
And Fred, you must have know Conrail Barb, our Chicago West nemesis.
Curb Your Enthusiasm.