B1G - The Big Train
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GO Train & Amtrak Maple Leaf - Niagara Falls, ON by tcamp7837, on Flickr
Amtrak Maple Leaf - Whirlpool Rapids Bridge by tcamp7837, on Flickr
Amtrak Maple Leaf - Bayview Jct by tcamp7837, on FlickrMight be more practical to run CP Windsor Sub from the Tunnel to where the CN Chrysler Spur branches off at the east end of Walkerville Yard and turns north to the wye at the Chatham Sub and shove in to the station, as the VIA trains currently do for the run back to Toronto when they don't have an engine on both ends.
Seems to me that the most efficient and expedient routing for any new International would indeed be the AML (Chicago - Detroit), CN Mount Clemens sub (Detroit - Port Huron/Sarnia), thence Toronto. It is, after all, a straight shot out of the Detroit Amtrak station to PH, and the MTC sub is now a higher speed/CTC controlled route with plenty of capacity (including double track and 2 CTC equipped sidings). You would retain all of the busy AML stops, plus the added benefit of possible passenger stops in perhaps Mount Clemens and/or Richmond. Lots of east siders make the drive to Pontiac/Birmingham/Troy for a trip to Chicago. The infrastructure is entirely in place now - no great pinch points to deal with. A fast route with more business - no, we better not do that.Ypsi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:51 pmCrossing the boarder on Amtrak Cascades about 5 years ago was not bad, put your ID on your tray table/ at your seat and the agent walks by. Took like 20-30 mins to clear the train. You are theoretically already passed through a boarder check at the station in Vancouver as it was the only Canadian Station.
IF you brought back a train like this, it would likely make more sense to go via the AML, however to get to Via Rail in Windsor you need to run over Essex terminal.
Problem is, this is based on Amtrak once again utilizing MC station - and that, frankly, is highly unlikely to happen as long as there continues to be service between Detroit and Pontiac. Amtrak maintaining two stations in Detroit doesn't make sense. I believe if MC is ever used again for passenger service, it will be for some sort of commuter service to the west. Again, AML and CN from Detroit to Sarnia and Toronto relieves them of a two station (read $$$) scenario. I realize that this may make too much sense for those involved in route strategies at Amtrak/Via, as they are government entities after all - and well, you know how that works. I rest my case.Ypsi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:13 pmI did a fictional TT for my HO scale layout for a modern Amtrak international where it ran overnight between CHI and TOR. Arriving at about 8am local time at either location. Sleeper and coach service. This is a market where I think you would be able to have early arrivals while also having your sleep time (if you fancy sleeping on Amtrak) used efficiently. If you think about getting a flight, hotel, etc, taking an overnight train from CHI to TOR might be an attractive and price competitive option. Times are based on current VIA and Amtrak times on their separate TT's with a healthy amount of time to get from Detroit to the Windsor station.
A sample of what I did:
348- "International"
Chicago- 8:30p (CT)
New Buffalo- 10:49p (ET)
Niles- 11:20p
Kalamazoo- 11:54p
Battle Creek- 12:20a
Jackson- 1:13a
Ann Arbor- 1:55a
Dearborn- 2:30a
Detroit (MC Station)- 2:45a
Windsor (Via)- 3:30a
London (Via)- 5:20a
Toronto (Union Station)- 7:54a (ET)
349- "International"
Toronto (union Station)- 10:35p (ET)
Londan (Via)- 1:09a
Windsor (Via)- 2:59a
Detroit (MC Station)- 3:44a
Dearborn- 3:59a
Ann Arbor- 4:34a
Jackson- 5:10a
Battle Creek- 6:09a
Kalamazoo- 6:34a
Niles- 7:19a
New Buffalo- 7:39a (ET)
Chicago- 8:00a (CT)
This type of service would get Chicago and Toronto linked, allow passengers to use their night travel efficiently, and becomes useful as an early morning arrival into CHI or TOR.
It would make more sense to reverse it and have the commuter trains go north and the Toronto trains go straight. But using MC station as a stop for long distance trains would be the best government excess ever for the coolness factor if nothing else.Man o' War wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:53 pmProblem is, this is based on Amtrak once again utilizing MC station - and that, frankly, is highly unlikely to happen as long as there continues to be service between Detroit and Pontiac. Amtrak maintaining two stations in Detroit doesn't make sense. I believe if MC is ever used again for passenger service, it will be for some sort of commuter service to the west. Again, AML and CN from Detroit to Sarnia and Toronto relieves them of a two station (read $$$) scenario. I realize that this may make too much sense for those involved in route strategies at Amtrak/Via, as they are government entities after all - and well, you know how that works. I rest my case.Ypsi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:13 pmI did a fictional TT for my HO scale layout for a modern Amtrak international where it ran overnight between CHI and TOR. Arriving at about 8am local time at either location. Sleeper and coach service. This is a market where I think you would be able to have early arrivals while also having your sleep time (if you fancy sleeping on Amtrak) used efficiently. If you think about getting a flight, hotel, etc, taking an overnight train from CHI to TOR might be an attractive and price competitive option. Times are based on current VIA and Amtrak times on their separate TT's with a healthy amount of time to get from Detroit to the Windsor station.
A sample of what I did:
348- "International"
Chicago- 8:30p (CT)
New Buffalo- 10:49p (ET)
Niles- 11:20p
Kalamazoo- 11:54p
Battle Creek- 12:20a
Jackson- 1:13a
Ann Arbor- 1:55a
Dearborn- 2:30a
Detroit (MC Station)- 2:45a
Windsor (Via)- 3:30a
London (Via)- 5:20a
Toronto (Union Station)- 7:54a (ET)
349- "International"
Toronto (union Station)- 10:35p (ET)
Londan (Via)- 1:09a
Windsor (Via)- 2:59a
Detroit (MC Station)- 3:44a
Dearborn- 3:59a
Ann Arbor- 4:34a
Jackson- 5:10a
Battle Creek- 6:09a
Kalamazoo- 6:34a
Niles- 7:19a
New Buffalo- 7:39a (ET)
Chicago- 8:00a (CT)
This type of service would get Chicago and Toronto linked, allow passengers to use their night travel efficiently, and becomes useful as an early morning arrival into CHI or TOR.
Man o' War
This is true. No matter how you slice it, any future use of MC depot for commuter or long distance service presents more than a little bit of a logistical conundrum. Perhaps Fords early thinking that it may be used for shuffling its employees between Ann Arbor/Dearborn may end up as the only practical use as far as rail is concerned, and personally, I'm even skeptical about that plan. Just as easy to drive your shiny new Ford to the MC campus.
If working in an office returns for the majority that involves working in person, where will all of the vehicles park? Is a parking garage part of the redevelopment plans? maybe across Vernor in the space that Amtrak used in the 90s?Just as easy to drive your shiny new Ford to the MC campus.
Except if you want to ride to Toronto.
Peter, thanks for posting this. Very interesting and quite comprehensive. I really wonder what kind of ridership the UP routes could attract with the proper promotion? If only a few trillion could fall out of the sky for Michigan passenger infrastructure. Maybe we need to talk to those in D.C. that think money does grow on trees - they could move this along...PerRock wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:24 pmI fiddled around with re-establishing rail services in Detroit a while back... here is the route map I made (it's for all of MI): https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... sp=sharing
peter
Intriguing, though I'd add Detroit-Lansing-Grand Rapids before any northern routes.PerRock wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:24 pmI fiddled around with re-establishing rail services in Detroit a while back... here is the route map I made (it's for all of MI): https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... sp=sharing
peter
The only reason I have MC as a station is because the TT I made was for my Ho scale layout. In all actuality skipping Detroit is probably fine and using using Dearborn instead. DER is very close to Detroit and anyone going to Toronto likely has access to a car or a bus to get to that transit hub.Problem is, this is based on Amtrak once again utilizing MC station - and that, frankly, is highly unlikely to happen as long as there continues to be service between Detroit and Pontiac. Amtrak maintaining two stations in Detroit doesn't make sense. I believe if MC is ever used again for passenger service, it will be for some sort of commuter service to the west. Again, AML and CN from Detroit to Sarnia and Toronto relieves them of a two station (read $$$) scenario. I realize that this may make too much sense for those involved in route strategies at Amtrak/Via, as they are government entities after all - and well, you know how that works. I rest my case.
Man o' War