C&O Old Main in Flint

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GTWwatcher
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C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by GTWwatcher »

I'm curious if anyone has any knowledge of customers that were located along the southern portion of the old C&O main from Atwood Jct. to south of downtown. I know of a couple, but info about this line is hard to come by.

jimnorthwood
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by jimnorthwood »

The last active downtown customer on the old C&O main was Dover and Company on Grand Traverse Street. They received lumber for garage doors. The Atlas Warehouse also used rail up to near the end. They had their own lead that ran parallel to the Flint River. I don't know what they shipped or received.

There is a person named Steve B. who posted to this board in the past, and may still do so. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to railroads in and around that area, and he may be able to fill in the blanks.

You may also want to post your question to the "other" board. A guy who posts as Elba Steve probably knows more about the old C&O main than anyone.

Hope this helps.

GTWwatcher
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by GTWwatcher »

jimnorthwood wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:27 am
The last active downtown customer on the old C&O main was Dover and Company on Grand Traverse Street. They received lumber for garage doors. The Atlas Warehouse also used rail up to near the end. They had their own lead that ran parallel to the Flint River. I don't know what they shipped or received.

There is a person named Steve B. who posted to this board in the past, and may still do so. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to railroads in and around that area, and he may be able to fill in the blanks.

You may also want to post your question to the "other" board. A guy who posts as Elba Steve probably knows more about the old C&O main than anyone.

Hope this helps.
Thank you, that does help. I've been a lurker on the "other" board for years, but have never been successful at getting an account set up.

Tim
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by Tim »

Posted by Elba Steve on 2/14/2015, 6:01 pm, in reply to " Re: Flint Old PM Main Customers"
Wolf Brothers Iron, located just off South Grand Traverse Street, and Dover used rail right up 'till total abandonment. Tracks were already removed north of 2nd Avenue, north to about Wood Street. On the north end, just south of the old Buick complex, there was still some tank cars for DuPont until they closed the Flint facility too. They hung on until about 2004-2005ish. Buick stopped using rail all together about that time also, and closed the remaining factories in 2010. Final Assembly closed in July of 1998, and that ended all auto rack transport from that facility. When that happened, that took a major number of carloads out of Flint. At one time, during the late 70's and 80's, Buick produced around 2500 cars daily at its two assembly plants, and shipped about 55% of those by rail.

Posted by DaveO on 7/30/2016, 8:54 am, in reply to "Re: Where is it?"
Interesting, the topo shows a wye having been partially under the overpass. Topo shows tracks in place as of 1975. Topo also shows another railroad line severed at the infamous river but track remains in place on both sides of that bridge, including a connection to the (former) track now in question.

Posted by Alex on 7/30/2016, 9:12 am, in reply to "Where is it?"
That's the old PM / C&O main under I-69, at Fenton Road (Old US-23). Rail activity dwindled down to nothing by late 80's. A few customers at the end, but CSX didn't want them. Once served part of Chevy in the Hole, Fisher Body (the last major customer). A few final customers (Dover / Atlas / Street Fuel) Elba Steve knows the story well. Like everything else in Flint, you wouldn't expect anything else but blight. I recall, early 90's / late 80's, when I was very young, tracks were well rusted over. Then one day, they were gone!

Steve B
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by Steve B »

Buick assembly actually stopped in June 1999. The one Chevy Mfg. plant directly served by C&O was Tool and Die, but I have no clue of the nature of shipments or when the last one was. All I know is there's a big rail door on the east side of the building. The spur was actually already in place before the plant was built ca 1967 and appeared to serve a coal dealer. From aerial views you can see that the spur's bridge over Swartz Creek is still there as well as some of the track.

The C&O old main was severed in Sept. 1972. The second main track along the belt line was extended/completed just before then to help handle the Buick-Fisher traffic that had gone through downtown up to then.

Second Ave. to just S of Hemphill Rd was ripped up in early '90s, no later than 1993. The portion over Grand Traverse and Kearsley was already gone sometime before then. I grew up in Flint in the '80s but wasn't around the south half of the old main enough to ever see a train on it.

jimnorthwood
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by jimnorthwood »

Good to see you still checking in Steve B.

The last evidence I saw of any use of the south of downtown stretch of the old C& O main was one of the below two, but I can't recall which of the two was THE last. This would have been in Summer, 1986 at the very latest, as I left Flint for good that Fall. It could have been 1985, or 1984. Memory isn't as sharp when one gets older...

1. The Art Train. It was parked just south of where the track crossed the east-west road that ran on the south side of Chevy in the Hole. See, I can't even recall the names of the roads around there anymore :(

2. The Atlas Warehouse Lead as it was known, which was on the other side of the same road I referred to above. I was very surprised to see a couple of boxcars parked alongside that building one day while on my way to UM-F. I hadn't seen anything rail related there in I don't know how many years. I still don't know whether they shipped something, or received something, or they were cleaning the place out, or...

Note that I did not witness any actual train movement with regards to either of the above. Just the described evidence.

I believe there were two tracks where the line crossed under the Court Street bridge. I also recall one of those tracks being filled with white-lined boxcars. This too would have been very near the end.

GTWwatcher
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by GTWwatcher »

Thank you everyone for the information!

Steve B
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by Steve B »

jimnorthwood wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:48 pm
...
1. The Art Train. It was parked just south of where the track crossed the east-west road that ran on the south side of Chevy in the Hole. See, I can't even recall the names of the roads around there anymore :(
...
I don't get back to Flint much anymore, Jim. Too depressing, but I wish them all the best. That east-west road is Kearsley St. It sure would be cool if the track still went all the way to Beach St. for excursions and the Art Train (if it still existed). Sigh. I noticed on Google Street View that the spur remnant which ran through the homeless shelter parking lot on the north side of Kearsley unfortunately was removed recently.

Here's a Street View shot from a few years ago showing the concrete strip on Kearsley where the old main crossed, and an aerial view with the basic RR stuff noted. The parking ramp exactly follows the right of way line. Also here's a view showing how the area looked in 1967, from earthexplorer.usgs.gov.
C&O Kearsley St. Flint.png
downtown Flint.png
Flint 4-4-1967.png

Steve B
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by Steve B »

Flint 4-4-1954.png
It wouldn't let me add this to the previous message, but here's a 1954 view from earthexplorer.

jimnorthwood
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Re: C&O Old Main in Flint

Unread post by jimnorthwood »

Thanks, Steve B. Great stuff from you as usual.

Of course, Kearsley Street. How could I forget that.

Wonder if that "For Sale by CSX Properties" sign is still there where the track crossed.

I hear you about Flint. In the past two years my brother and a good friend who either lived in Flint or nearby, passed away. All of my other relatives are gone, too. So likely no good reason to visit Flint itself, again.

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