Scraping locomotives

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Scraping locomotives

Unread postby YpsiAmtrakBoy » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:07 pm

How much money can me made from scrapping a locomotive. I understand how scrap prices work, but not everything in an engine can be scrapped or it can be reused. Does Anyone know or have a guess of how much scrap value of a train engine can be. For a base engine how about a gp38 size engine...
Last edited by YpsiAmtrakBoy on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby AveryRdhouse » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:10 pm

YOU DON'T SCRAP GP38's! They can be rebuilt or used for spare parts. GE's on the other hand.....bring out the torches.
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby J T » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:48 pm

YpsiAmtrakBoy wrote:How much money can me made from scrapping a locomotive. I understand how scrap prices work, but not everything in an engine can be scrapped or it can be reused. Does Antoine know or have a guess of how much scrap value of a train engine can be.

Who is Antoine? I'd ask if him if he knew or had a guess if I knew where to find him. :wink:
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby SD80MAC » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:32 am

AveryRdhouse wrote:YOU DON'T SCRAP GP38's! They can be rebuilt or used for spare parts. GE's on the other hand.....bring out the torches.

Good answer!
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby YpsiAmtrakBoy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:56 am

bla bla bla :roll: so i used a gp38 as an example for the SIZE of the locomotive that i was wondering about, when i made the post i couldn't think of an older locomotive that would be scrapped... how about the alcos that just got scrapped; heres a refresher viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22966&hilit=scrap

and maybe next time we'll be more nice when we respond :wink: a simple "you don't scrap a GP38, but if you were to scrap a rs-1 it would be about..." just saying :mrgreen:
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby Raildudes dad » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:46 am

I received about $250 / ton a year or so a go for an unprocessed car ie had all the fluids in it, even ran :wink:. For a ballpark figure use 200-225 tons for a loco. The scrapper can get a better price if it's processed, less than 3 foot pieces. Lots of variables, selling to a scrap buyer broker, scrap company. direct to the mill, plus the price fluctuates on demand. (Appears to be up a little based on the vehicles heading to Padnos and Enterprise in GR :lol: )
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby 12Bridge » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:58 pm

Its rare an engine gets simple scrapped (yes, it does happen though). Most company's now will pull everything out that has a core value. Engines, Gennys, Radiators, Compressors, Wheels, Electrical cabinets, etc. The list goes on.

The reason its rare for RR's to cut anything up themselves in this era is because in order to get top price, you need to have it processed. IE, in chunks less then 3' (off the top of my head), and clean. Copper and brass have to be the same way. You get more if you bring copper in with no insulation then if you do for example. It also costs money to scrap something, so the cost of labor and supply's is going to be built around the price paid to wherever they are getting said piece from. It all boils down to what the daily rate is for steel. I seem to recall a company got about 25k for an Alco S1 in scrap.

And I got news for you, just as many EMDs go to scrap as GEs. Rebuild-able or not. Everything has a shelf life.
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby Todd Cline » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:27 am

Most locomotives have always been leased through a large banking corporation for a 15 year period. After that lease is up the railroad usually has the option to either purchase the unit (units), or turn them back. With the current situation of EPA regulations and newer locomotives getting more and more efficient all the time, it makes economic sense for the railroads to let these units go back to the lessor. Then it becomes the banks problem. Most railroads that are in the market for used locomotives (and there ARE some exceptions), are not looking for big 4000 HP six axle units. So, most of the post-1990 big power gets scrapped after the lease is up. There is still a market for older, usually EMD 4 axle units such as GP-38-2s etc. For some reason, older GE units don't seem to have much resale value. I'm not sure why that is, on a horsepower-vs-horsepower basis, the GE 4-cycle engine is more fuel effecient than the EMD 2-cycle. Probably more an issue of less expensive maintenance on the EMDs. There is still a good market for solid, well maintained older EMDs such as GP-9s and SW-1200s, but that is a shortline market, and they don't usually want to spend a bunch of money. There has been a recent trend of repowering older "cores" such as old EMD switchers and GP-9s with "Eco-Friendly" powerplants, Gensets, Hybrids, and the like. But these are still in the "One-Off" category. Recently NS built a totally battery powered unit on an old geep core, but that is again, a "One-Off", experimental unit that has limited utilization.

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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby Todd Cline » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:59 am

I guess I got off-topic with my first reply. As to the scrap value of a locomotive, I'd say the first thing to go is the re-saleable parts. Prime mover, alternator, traction motors, etc. Probably around $100.000 there. After that, if I was the scrapper, I would market the "collectibles" such as horns, builders plates,control stand, seats, lights, etc. around $5000.00 perhaps. Then we have the items like wiring, probably at least 500 pounds of copper in there, Aluminum in the radiators, maybe another 2or3 hundred pounds. 3 cylinder 750 cfm air compressor for sale? $2000.00. Air brake parts, another $8000.00 to the right buyer. commercial grade chemical toilet, $1500.00, Cooling fans, 500.00 each,
couplers, $200.00 each, trucks, $5000.00 each,
I may have missed a few things, but after that figure the scrap value on steel for the remaining hulk, The frame itself is probably close to 100,000 pounds, and you are going to make some good money. The reason that the big railroads don't scrap their own locomotives anymore is a factor of cost of labor. They no longer have "Laborers" on staff. The mechanical depts. have been cut to the bone so most of them are now at $35 to $65 an hour because they are now all highly skilled craftsmen. No longer do they have the extra manpower to cut up locomotives. Most old engines wind up at the huge sea-side mega scrapyards, cut up and loaded into ships bound for China. Next time you buy anything that has metal in it, it's probably from China, and it probably has a few SD-40s in it... toot-toot!!!

Todd :cry: :(
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby trnwatcher » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 am

scrapping a locomotive is usually done in one of two ways.
1) the entire locomotive is sold as scrap. Usually they've already been stripped for usable parts and the scrapper is buying for scrap value only.
2) a rebuilder\second hand source will buy the locomotive "as is" and take whatever resalealbe or rebuildable parts off they can. This usually included, horns, traction motors, prime movers, turbochargers, etc. The rest is then either scrapped for the metal value or kept on hand to use to rebuild other locomotives.

Either way the railroad usually has an internal department that handles either option. I know at CSX scrapping was always done by the mechanical department as they handled locomotive maintenance, purchasing, rebuilding, etc.
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby Old Hogger » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:38 pm

Image

Sad day
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby ConrailMan5 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:10 pm

Old Hogger wrote:Image

Sad day

was this the EL unit use on the star clipper dinner train?
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby Old Hogger » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:58 pm

ConrailMan5 wrote:
Old Hogger wrote:Image

Sad day

was this the EL unit use on the star clipper dinner train?


One of them. The other (725) is still in the house
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby CAT345C » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:41 pm

Somewhere I've got the photos from scrapping 416 and several cars last year. A lot of items were saved off the units, the doors, horns, air brake equipment, special fixtures such as flag holders, lighting from inside. Really the only parts of these units that was truly scrapped was the frame and sheet metal. The engine and HEP went to second parties.
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby MSchwiebert » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:19 pm

On a somewhat related topic, there was a company in Adrian that scrapped out locomotives for a while in the 1990's. Anyone have an idea of how many they did? I got some pictures of former Canadian National 6 axle alco awaiting it's turn with the torch, but that was the only one I got a chance to catch.
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Your weights and values are wrong

Unread postby Locokutter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:42 pm

I just wanted to say that your weights and prices are so far off that it makes you look like you have no idea what your talking bout
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby Locokutter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:44 pm

I have cut over 1000 locos in my short career so if anybody has questions on loco scrap fire away
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Re: Your weights and values are wrong

Unread postby SD80MAC » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:13 pm

Locokutter wrote:I just wanted to say that your weights and prices are so far off that it makes you look like you have no idea what your talking bout. I have cut over 1000 locos in my short career so if anybody has questions on loco scrap fire away
Good for you. How about telling us the actual weights and prices?
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Re: Your weights and values are wrong

Unread postby JDavis21835 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:39 pm

SD80MAC wrote:
Locokutter wrote:I just wanted to say that your weights and prices are so far off that it makes you look like you have no idea what your talking bout. I have cut over 1000 locos in my short career so if anybody has questions on loco scrap fire away
Good for you. How about telling us the actual weights and prices?


Prices are dictated by the daily commodity market price. Most of the time if you are dealing with enough scrap, you set your price for the month directly to a foundry. This foundry will have prices vary depending on what you are shipping them.

As far as steel goes, there is a market price for 5 foot, 2 foot, and sheet iron. Sheet iron price is usually the same as shred. 5 foot is usually cut at 2ftx4ft. Of course 2ft is no more than 2x2. 2ft is a better price, mostly because there is more into processing it. Some foundries will only use 2ft. This is usually the case if they are a small electric arc furnace foundry. Rifkin in Saginaw is currently paying $260 a ton for 2ft and the same for 5ft. The price they get at the foundry is going to be significantly higher. They also obviously have meet their monthly tonnage requirement for 2ft as they are not paying a premium.

You then have the cast iron market. Cast seems to vary a bit, and again that depends on the tonnage quota for the month. Rifkin is giving $260 a ton for cast right now, and $145 a ton for big engine blocks. There is a good amount of work breaking up cast, and its not easy unlike sheering iron. Cast has to be bombed, or hammered to get it smaller. When I say bomb, you pick it up and drop it on other cast to break it up.

Then you get into your copper, aluminum and stainless items. Too many types and categories to cover. They key to all is what you bring in is clean, and the scrap yard/foundry doesnt have to touch it other than to melt it.
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Re: Scraping locomotives

Unread postby bctrainfan » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:26 am

Maybe putting it like this would clarify this better for me:

I am a shortline railroad with an old broke down GP9 in my yard,basically intact. What's a good educated ball park figure for what a scrapper will pay me for it?
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