Amtrak 355 accident-New Buffalo

[Saturnalia]

The cops, tow truck driver and driver of the original vehicle should never attempt an escape room because they’re clearly very bad at looking around for clues on what they should do next.

Per a reliable source, the equipment that was taken off the rail had wheels/trucks too badly damaged to attempt a hospital move.

Same source indicated that the speed of the collision was 88 MPH.

[J T]

I didn't realize the rear unit was sitting on the siding at Three Oaks, but I did see the lead unit and cars set aside along US 12 yesterday.
DSC_0388.JPG
DSC_0383.JPG
Sounds like a data base was down in the 911 system allowing them to enter cross streets, and the 911 dispatcher called CSX by mistake. (CSX also crosses Lakeside Rd.)


I don't think anyone bothered calling the number on the crossing signal, at least not at first. This would have put the caller in direct communication with the operating railroad, Amtrak, not CSX.

"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#

I guess someone saying, "Lakeside Rd. just west of Three Oaks," requires a database.

[MikeB89]

I didn't realize the rear unit was sitting on the siding at Three Oaks, but I did see the lead unit and cars set aside along US 12 yesterday.
DSC_0388.JPG
DSC_0383.JPG
Sounds like a data base was down in the 911 system allowing them to enter cross streets, and the 911 dispatcher called CSX by mistake. (CSX also crosses Lakeside Rd.)


I don't think anyone bothered calling the number on the crossing signal, at least not at first. This would have put the caller in direct communication with the operating railroad, Amtrak, not CSX.

"Technology" is being blamed apparently.
https://wsbt.com/news/local/train-derai ... y-michigan#

I guess someone saying, "Lakeside Rd. just west of Three Rivers," requires a database.

Well even if they said Three Rivers that would've been an incorrect town anyways. It was west of Three Oaks.

Like many have said including myself they should've contacted that blue sign on the crossing. CSX does cross Lakeside to the North but you know human error. Very seldomly mechanical error causes things like this.

[Jochs]

I guess someone saying, "Lakeside Rd. just west of Three Rivers," requires a database.

Lakeside Rd. is over 55 miles west of Three Rivers...but only a couple of miles west of Three Oaks. I don't recall anyone mentioning Three Rivers on the news.

Reading the updated story, it obvious that the number on the blue sign was not the first number called. That number puts you in direct contact with that railroad's police, and you don't have to know where you are, the crossing ID on the blue sign on the crossing signal/crossbucks pinpoints your exact location on that railroad.

This one is at Smilax Rd. along the NS Chicago Line, around milepost CD 447. The blue sign can be easily spotted.

[justin_gram]

The emergency signs on Amtrak’s crossings are HUGE compared to those on other railroad’s crossings… nearly as big as the STOP ON RED SIGNAL sign. https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... -michigan/

[J T]

Well even if they said Three Rivers that would've been an incorrect town anyways. It was west of Three Oaks.

Thanks for catching that. Fixed. That's what I get for posting while trying to push one out while on the toilet.

My point still stands though.

[twropr]

We don't know why the ITCS display did not warn the engineer that the crossing was occupied.
However, the accident still could have been avoided. According to press reports the tow truck
driver and/or person with vehicle stuck on the track called 911 instead of the emergency number
shown on the crossing post's plaque - this number goes right to the Michigan Line Train Director.
The 911 operator mistakenly thought it was a CSX crossing and did not notify Amtrak. If they
had called the Train Director train 355 would have approached the crossing at restricted speed
and ultimately stopped to avoid the collision.
Andy

[David Collins]

We don't know why the ITCS display did not warn the engineer that the crossing was occupied.

Wait…ITCS has the capability to detect that?!

[justin_gram]

ITCS keeps constant communication between upcoming crossings and the locomotive. It wirelessly activates signals early enough, based on the train's current speed, so that the train can reduce speed/stop in time if the crossing fails to completely protect. This includes a gate not completely falling (for example; stuck on a truck), something not working, etc. This is why the gates come down so early on all of these Amtrak crossings.

I have never read anywhere about any type of occupancy sensors on these crossings, nor have seen any myself. From what I see, there are no microwave sensors, cameras, pavement loops, or anything that would be able to detect a vehicle... besides a gate getting stuck on said vehicle. In this crash, the gates fully lowered. Without these sensors, I don't know how these crossings would know If there is something on the tracks. If there is something there for detection it is hidden well...

Wireless Crossing Activation
ITCS provides the capability to wirelessly activate (advance start) highway-rail grade crossings. Because the onboard computer knows its precise location, the location of the crossing, and the train's speed, it can calculate the time of arrival at the crossing. When a train approaches an ITCS equipped crossing, the onboard computer sends a request to arm the crossing. It also sends the train's time of arrival. The crossing communicates to the onboard computer that it is armed and calculates when to activate the lights and gates. The onboard computer enforces a predefined restricted speed limit on the approach to the crossing and a second predefined speed limit through the crossing until the crossing properly acknowledges the onboard computer's request. After the acknowledge message is received, the onboard computer sends updated arrival times to the crossing reflecting any changes in train speed. The crossing continuously reports its health status to the onboard computer. Speed limits associated with the health status are defined for each crossing in the ITCS database. A speed reduction can be enforced if the crossing is not operating correctly.

G. Hann, "Incremental Train Control System," in IEEE Vehicular Technology Magazine, vol. 5, no. 4, pp. 50-55, Dec. 2010, doi: 10.1109/MVT.2010.939108.

[Burb8145]

We don't know why the ITCS display did not warn the engineer that the crossing was occupied.
However, the accident still could have been avoided. According to press reports the tow truck
driver and/or person with vehicle stuck on the track called 911 instead of the emergency number
shown on the crossing post's plaque - this number goes right to the Michigan Line Train Director.
The 911 operator mistakenly thought it was a CSX crossing and did not notify Amtrak. If they
had called the Train Director train 355 would have approached the crossing at restricted speed
and ultimately stopped to avoid the collision.
Andy

Making this situation even more baffling is that while Lakeside Road crosses both CSX and Amtrak lines, the two crossings are three miles apart -- the CSX crossing is adjacent to Lakeside's intersection with Red Arrow Highway, while the Amtrak crossing is much closer to US-12.

[DaveO]

the police car video showed the gates down. there is no occupancy detector as might be found on some japanese crossings for example.

[justalurker66]

Making this situation even more baffling is that while Lakeside Road crosses both CSX and Amtrak lines, the two crossings are three miles apart -- the CSX crossing is adjacent to Lakeside's intersection with Red Arrow Highway, while the Amtrak crossing is much closer to US-12.

Three miles is close enough. It would be interesting to hear the 911 tapes of the initial call giving the location of the incident - "where the railroad tracks cross Lakeside Road near the highway". Highway 12 or old Highway 12 (Red Arrow)? I can see where a location could be confused. Even "south of Red Arrow Highway on Lakeside Road" could describe the Amtrak crossing three miles away (how far south?).

[Saturnalia]

We don't know why the ITCS display did not warn the engineer that the crossing was occupied.
However, the accident still could have been avoided. According to press reports the tow truck
driver and/or person with vehicle stuck on the track called 911 instead of the emergency number
shown on the crossing post's plaque - this number goes right to the Michigan Line Train Director.
The 911 operator mistakenly thought it was a CSX crossing and did not notify Amtrak. If they
had called the Train Director train 355 would have approached the crossing at restricted speed
and ultimately stopped to avoid the collision.
Andy

ITCS interfaces with the grade crossing controllers, but those do not include (at least at present) any sort of presence detectors at crossings. ITCS will relay crossing alarm states so that partial or activation failures can be handled safely by slowing down the train, but it will not detect obstructions or anything of that sort, unless it messes with the hardware at the crossing itself.

I'm not sure if Amtrak does it, but there are some railroads now that pipe the crossing and other signal wayside fault codes directly to the dispatcher, so that they can see things and if necessary, contact the signal department. Crossings can go into alarm for a number of reasons, including many that do not immediately cause a crossing failure, such as commercial power out. Communication losses, temperature alarms, etc are common.

[J T]

Three miles is close enough. It would be interesting to hear the 911 tapes of the initial call giving the location of the incident - "where the railroad tracks cross Lakeside Road near the highway". Highway 12 or old Highway 12 (Red Arrow)? I can see where a location could be confused. Even "south of Red Arrow Highway on Lakeside Road" could describe the Amtrak crossing three miles away (how far south?).

"Lakeside Rd. just west of Three Oaks" would have worked perfectly, but I guess a lot of people are directionally challenged these days.