Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

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twropr
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Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by twropr »

There was an interesting article in November TRAINS where the author claimed that Amtrak has not increased speeds between Town Line and Kalamazoo because the track work was not done. I thought the track work completed during the fall of 2017 would do it, and I've heard that the ITCS in service east of K'zoo is a newer version than to the west, and has been troublesome.
Would be interested in hearing from you as to why we are not yet seeing speeds above 79 MPH on the line east of K'zoo.
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Saturnalia
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

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Track is done from Kalamazoo to Jackson and Ypsi to Townline. Problem is Jackson to Ypsi is full of curves and needs a lot of track re-engineering. Plans are in the works for crossing upgrades, curve realignments, etc to allow for higher speeds.

Then you get into ITCS which has turned into a curse word at Amtrak and the MDOT Office of Rail by now I’m sure.

Now they did just get a grant to do Jackson to Ypsi so that should start soon. Beyond that I just don’t think much is a priority with them only running one train each way and Amtrak in survival mode. There isn’t much money out there for rail transit of any kind right now.
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joeyuboats
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by joeyuboats »

Gee-- all the progress, technology and innovations, and we are still wondering why Amtrak has trouble doing what Milwaukee Road used to do everyday,-- behind steam, on jointed rail, in the late 30's and 40's.

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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

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joeyuboats wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:27 pm
Gee-- all the progress, technology and innovations, and we are still wondering why Amtrak has trouble doing what Milwaukee Road used to do everyday,-- behind steam, on jointed rail, in the late 30's and 40's.
Ummmm.. the standards of what you could do and more specifically GET AWAY WITH back then we’re WAAAAAYYYY different. You can read old stories of crews regularly speeding to get passenger trains back on schedule. Can’t do that anymore, and that’s probably for the better.
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M.D.Bentley
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

Crossings, crossings, crossings. Without ABSOLUTE grade crossing separation , the higher speeds maybe a ways off.

The Milwaukee Road was not the only one to do all of that. They were hitting the Century mark on the Detroit line between Detroit and Toledo on jointed rail. I worked with a couple of engineers that were in the "Century" club. Must of been a hell of a ride :D

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SD80MAC
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by SD80MAC »

They are supposed to start testing 110 mph east of Kalamazoo fairly soon, but how far I didn't hear.
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

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M.D.Bentley wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:24 pm
Crossings, crossings, crossings. Without ABSOLUTE grade crossing separation , the higher speeds maybe a ways off.

The Milwaukee Road was not the only one to do all of that. They were hitting the Century mark on the Detroit line between Detroit and Toledo on jointed rail. I worked with a couple of engineers that were in the "Century" club. Must of been a hell of a ride :D
Crossings don't have anything to do with it, at least outside the cities. The 110 MPH stretch west of Kzo has tons of grade crossings.

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kd_1014
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by kd_1014 »

Steve B wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:45 pm
M.D.Bentley wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:24 pm
Crossings, crossings, crossings. Without ABSOLUTE grade crossing separation , the higher speeds maybe a ways off.

The Milwaukee Road was not the only one to do all of that. They were hitting the Century mark on the Detroit line between Detroit and Toledo on jointed rail. I worked with a couple of engineers that were in the "Century" club. Must of been a hell of a ride :D
Crossings don't have anything to do with it, at least outside the cities. The 110 MPH stretch west of Kzo has tons of grade crossings.
It is crazy to see dirt roads with lights and gates west of Kzoo

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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by Jetlink »

Steve B wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 2:45 pm
M.D.Bentley wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:24 pm
Crossings, crossings, crossings. Without ABSOLUTE grade crossing separation , the higher speeds maybe a ways off.

The Milwaukee Road was not the only one to do all of that. They were hitting the Century mark on the Detroit line between Detroit and Toledo on jointed rail. I worked with a couple of engineers that were in the "Century" club. Must of been a hell of a ride :D
Crossings don't have anything to do with it, at least outside the cities. The 110 MPH stretch west of Kzo has tons of grade crossings.
Max speed with out grade separation or impenetrable barriers is 110 mph under current FRA rules. The next step would be up to 125 mph. But that would also be class 7 track instead of class 6. I’m going to guess that the track west of Kalamazoo is good enough to easily meet class 7 standards but simply lacks the grade separation. Also a p42 isn’t good for much more than 110mph according to to manufacturer specs. But a charger should be able to attain 125 mph.

By my understanding In the ITCS system the locomotive equipment has telemetry not only with the wayside signals but also crossing protection devices. If the crossing protection doesn’t activate properly the system reduces speed target in the cab.
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

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Jetlink wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:07 am

Max speed with out grade separation or impenetrable barriers is 110 mph under current FRA rules. The next step would be up to 125 mph. But that would also be class 7 track instead of class 6. I’m going to guess that the track west of Kalamazoo is good enough to easily meet class 7 standards but simply lacks the grade separation. Also a p42 isn’t good for much more than 110mph according to to manufacturer specs. But a charger should be able to attain 125 mph.
...
Right, I don't think anybody at Amtrak or MDOT is talking about higher than 110. It's remarkable that the Twilight Limited (and even moreso, Detroit Arrow) in 1936 covered Chicago-Detroit in 4:45 while Amtrak just now is approaching that again. But again, entirely different rules, priorities and circumstances now.

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DaveO
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by DaveO »

The problem isn't the top speed. It's the average speed.
I think the reality is Amtrak deserves as much credit for the delays as NS does.

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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by PatAzo »

You don't have to go back as far as steam and the Milwaukee Road of old. Bernie Potts got caught running 105MPH through Lawton in the 80's and he wasn't the only one. There was a pair of engineers of the same era who stayed in freight service, Dutton and Stokes I want to say. I followed one of them headed south along Shaver Rd in Portage at 65MPH.

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SD80MAC
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Re: Why Amtrak not running 110 MPH

Unread post by SD80MAC »

You could get away with a lot back in the day. I've heard lots of stories of GTW and C&O engineers drilling holes in the speedometers on engines so the needle would stop before it tripped the overspeed at 72 mph.
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