Proposed Museum - Grand Rapids

[MQT1223]

I moved over in 2007 and found out about the Proposed Michigan Land, Air and Sea Museum that was supposed to be built by the Ford Airport a few years after. What ever happened to it? The news article I found was from like 2004 or 2005, and after that I can't find a thing. In 2012 I went and checked out the location to find a dismal little steam locomotive, a N&W caboose and a miniature railroad. The steam locomotive (can't believe I am saying this), looks like it needs to be put out of its misery and is leaking asbestos on the ground; tons of things are missing off of it. The caboose is starting to rust out and is infested with bees. The miniature railroad however looks very well built and is very large. A vintage signal is on site, a watertower, and a pit for dumping ash for the operation of steam locomotives. Anybody care to fill me in on what happened? Who owns the property and what is still left on the site?

[Beal99]

I don't think thats the museum, I always thought that was the owner of the buildings private collection. That NW caboose and mini railroad have been there since the early to mid 90s

[SD80MAC]

Think you're talking about a completely different thing here, Max. The steam engine is an 0-4-0 Vulcan compound narrow gauge engine, and the caboose is an ex Virginian. Both are owned by Vierson Boiler Works, which is located on Patterson next to CSX and near the airport. They also occasionally operate their 1/4 scale railroad. Vierson Senior was big into steam engines and at one time was a boiler maker for the Pere Marquette IIRC. The son now runs the company and isn't as much into trains. Talked with him once, nice guy.

[Raildudes dad]

Pretty sure that Bud was involved in the proposed museum,maybe Dan Pheiffer too. It was supposed to go in the hanger by the tank farm at the airport. They were unable to raise the money to buy the building. I know the one Vierson bldg is full of military stuff. The RR stuff were gifts to Bud's dad.

[fmilhaupt]

One of the things that Vierson Boiler is known for is rebuilding Lowell Miniature Railway 4-6-4 #5002 following the shop fire at Lowell after that attraction closed down. This is the ex-Ramona Park locomotive up at Burley Park.

Vierson also has the Miniature Train Co. G16 passenger set that originally ran up at Deer Park, back before it became Deer Park Funland and long before its transformation into Michigan's Adventure. When Deer Park decided to go the full-blown amusement park route in the early 1970s and replaced the G16 with a Chance gas-powered 4-2-4 and open cars, the Lowell Railway bought the G16. It was an F-unit and three streamlined cars.

While I can't speak for Dan Pfeiffer, I know that one of the Dale Bergers (Jr. or Sr., I don't recall exactly) was an active railfan back in the 1980s.

[MQT1223]

Hmmmm. All very interesting things. Your saying that railroad has had tracks ran on it? It doesn't look like it's been used in a LONG time. The rails are rusty and a lot of the switches are partially seized up (Yes I got curious). The Boiler Works needs to do some sprucing up of the railroad display, especially the steamer with the asbestos. Any clue when the last train was ran or when trains are ran if any?

[SousaKerry]

Vierson also has the Miniature Train Co. G16 passenger set that originally ran up at Deer Park, back before it became Deer Park Funland and long before its transformation into Michigan's Adventure.

Deer Park? the one up near Pinconning on Rt 13, My Father-In-Law lives basically across the street from that place. Never even been tempted to stop there as it is so run down. My Wife said she remembered going as a kid.

[12Bridge]

Max, be very careful about what your saying online about peoples private property, being curious and mentioning certain aspects of these things online...especially about the A word.


That being said, I would love to see Wanamie 9 returned to the Northern Field where it belongs one day.

[MQT1223]

Max, be very careful about what your saying online about peoples private property, being curious and mentioning certain aspects of these things online...especially about the A word.


That being said, I would love to see Wanamie 9 returned to the Northern Field where it belongs one day.

Sorry. I just forget where I am typing this stuff sometimes. I had never encountered the A stuff before until then so that's why it surprised me. What is the locomotives identity you say? Is there a story to her?

[fmilhaupt]

Deer Park? the one up near Pinconning on Rt 13, My Father-In-Law lives basically across the street from that place. Never even been tempted to stop there as it is so run down. My Wife said she remembered going as a kid.

No. The one on Riley-Thompson Road, north of Muskegon, that is now Michigan's Adventure.

[Robert MacDowell]

Sorry. I just forget where I am typing this stuff sometimes.

"edit post" is your friend, always wise to improve a post when possible.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

"edit post" is your friend, always wise to improve a post when possible.

+1

Some boards don't have the edit function. Taking advantage of the edit function here has kept my entire foot out of my mouth (figuratively speaking, of course) on many occasions.

[MQT1223]

"edit post" is your friend, always wise to improve a post when possible.

+1

Some boards don't have the edit function. Taking advantage of the edit function here has kept my entire foot out of my mouth (figuratively speaking, of course) on many occasions.

True, but I had never encountered the lovely A stuff until that locomotive and wasn't sure what it was and it only occurred to me on the way home what it was. Thank god I didn't touch it. It is more of a surprise and shock to me that the A stuff is still on the locomotive anyway. I get caught up in the moment sometimes. But don't get me wrong, the locomotive is very neat and has some different features on it like hook couplers.

[J T]

True, but I had never encountered the lovely A stuff until that locomotive and wasn't sure what it was and it only occurred to me on the way home what it was. Thank god I didn't touch it. It is more of a surprise and shock to me that the A stuff is still on the locomotive anyway. I get caught up in the moment sometimes. But don't get me wrong, the locomotive is very neat and has some different features on it like hook couplers.

How do you know it was asbestos? And I think you're overreacting even if it was. Years of exposure to asbestos is what affects people, not a brief encounter.

If that were the case, I'd be dead a long time ago.

[MQT1223]

True, but I had never encountered the lovely A stuff until that locomotive and wasn't sure what it was and it only occurred to me on the way home what it was. Thank god I didn't touch it. It is more of a surprise and shock to me that the A stuff is still on the locomotive anyway. I get caught up in the moment sometimes. But don't get me wrong, the locomotive is very neat and has some different features on it like hook couplers.

How do you know it was asbestos? And I think you're overreacting even if it was. Years of exposure to asbestos is what affects people, not a brief encounter.

If that were the case, I'd be dead a long time ago.

The reason why I guess it was asbestos was because it was dripping out in clumps from underneath what is left of the boiler jacketing. I am aware that it takes years for this stuff to affect you but I am only being cautious. Even though asbestos is so toxic, did the stuff actually work? What made it toxic?

[GreatLakesRailfan]

Disturbing the "A" can cause problems too, if you inhale the fibers.

Asbestos was an ingredient in many insulation and other building materials. It worked great, until THEY realized there were nasty side effect.

[Standard Railfan]

Even though asbestos is so toxic, did the stuff actually work? What made it toxic?

Asbestos was is one of the best high temperature insulations we have ever discovered. The fire retardant nature of asbestos made the material very popular for insulation in industrial applications. Asbestos comes in a variety of forms. Some pose a health risk others do not. The critical factor is the friability (propensity to be easily crumbled or pulverized) of the material. If the asbestos containing material stays intact, there is little risk of inhaling the fibers. Inhalation of the fibers can cause irritation of the lungs. Chronic exposure to asbestos fibers can lead to several related diseases.

Some additional information for your reading pleasure. https://www.conncoll.edu/media/website- ... bestos.pdf

[Bulby]

Some here may not know, but asbestos has been used in the past for brake shoes on railcars.

They are easy to tell from cast iron shoes once they wear a little, they have a distinctive wear pattern on the face.

[MQT1223]

Even though asbestos is so toxic, did the stuff actually work? What made it toxic?

Asbestos was is one of the best high temperature insulations we have ever discovered. The fire retardant nature of asbestos made the material very popular for insulation in industrial applications. Asbestos comes in a variety of forms. Some pose a health risk others do not. The critical factor is the friability (propensity to be easily crumbled or pulverized) of the material. If the asbestos containing material stays intact, there is little risk of inhaling the fibers. Inhalation of the fibers can cause irritation of the lungs. Chronic exposure to asbestos fibers can lead to several related diseases.

Some additional information for your reading pleasure. https://www.conncoll.edu/media/website- ... bestos.pdf

So is the stuff that's out today, all this fiberglass insulation the best we can come up with since asbestos or could we make a version that holds up better and is not dangerous to your health? Granted the fiberglass holds up very well but sounds like the problem could've been fixed if we changed a few things in the manufacturing process that would've made equally great substitutes for the hazardous stuff.