Adrian & Blissfield Railroad to Ottawa Lake connection

[CERY]

I thought the going rate was about 3 million per mile...

I wish Mark and the team at the ADBF the best of luck with their endeavor.

From what I have read its about $1 million per mile but many factors can make it a little lower or much higher.

Probably the highest cost for relaying track is legal battles with government and nimby's.

True, it does depend. The big factor is how much work the sub roadbed needs and then how fast do you want to go. Also are you buying new materials or using relay. With major projects like this it's a good idea to plan high just incase. If Mark plans for 17 million and has the money for that but can do it for half more power to him!

[NYCMan]

An interlocked crossing can exist with only 4 signals. One for each direction on each of the 2 railroads crossing. The approach signal can be a sign as opposed to a signal. But, I also seem to recall that this particular crossing, when it existed years back, had gates with stop signs instead of signals.

[Notch 8]

Well, I know where a section of the Old Road is ready to be lifted, maybe they could do a Lift & Shift, Would be wierd to rebild the Old Road with old rail from another section of the same route just 40 years later.. Seems like a very large project for the A&B, Too bad the route was severed to begin with.

[JoJames]

Stop signs would be all that's required. ADBF would call I&O requesting permission to cross and the next I&O train would confirm the way is clear.

[BnOEngr]

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[TrainWatcher]

I heard that NS told the ADBF that if they rebuilt the line from Riga to Ottawa Lake, NS would give them the Clinton Industrial all the way to the Mega.

Kinda would make sense. Then they'd handle the grain trains to Ottawa Lake just like they do in Elkhart, hand it off to the shortline with NS power.

[rail_watcher]

I heard that NS told the ADBF that if they rebuilt the line from Riga to Ottawa Lake, NS would give them the Clinton Industrial all the way to the Mega.

Kinda would make sense. Then they'd handle the grain trains to Ottawa Lake just like they do in Elkhart, hand it off to the shortline with NS power.

I just like watching trains, not sure how operations are handled. Why does NS handle the grain trains on a shortline?

[AARR]

Kinda would make sense. Then they'd handle the grain trains to Ottawa Lake just like they do in Elkhart, hand it off to the shortline with NS power.

I just like watching trains, not sure how operations are handled. Why does NS handle the grain trains on a shortline?

Not sure why but CSX has started doing the same thing where they hand off an empty unit grain to the short line complete with CSX power then the short line has 24-48 hours to return it to the interchange. Often the short line will use one of their own locomotives to lead the Class 1's unit while on the short lines tracks.

[BnOEngr]

?

[CERY]

The reason Class 1s leave their power on unit coal or grain trains is for faster turn around times. Just change crews and go. Also if you have to swap power then the power has to go somewhere and you are just burning resources for no real good reason.

Now if the short line doesn't want the class 1 power thats a different story. Six axel locomotives are really hard on track when your maintenance budget is that of a short line.

[railroadchoad]

Maybe someone familar with Indiana Northeastern can tell us how they handle NS power.

[NoviRailfan]

Troy Strane has some videos of INER unit grain trains running with NS power. There's also photos out there showing NS and leased power leading unit trains on INER.

One of the primary reasons for INER's rail upgrade projects has been to allow heavier loads to be shipped out from the various grain loading facilities. Wouldn't the ADBF be in the same boat if they were to return the track to the missing segment between Riga and Ottawa Lake? Doesn't seem like it would make sense to go through the expense of relaying track and use older track that couldn't accommodate the heavier loads. For those more familiar with the traffic patterns on these lines, what's the upside of NS dumping the line between Ottawa Lake and Toledo, as was suggested might happen? From the aerial view, there's a huge elevator just south of Ottawa Lake. Wouldn't this be a guaranteed flow of traffic for NS? Why would they give that over to ADBF?

[AARR]

From the aerial view, there's a huge elevator just south of Ottawa Lake. Wouldn't this be a guaranteed flow of traffic for NS? Why would they give that over to ADBF?

Yes, its the largest elevator (in terms of bushel capacity) in MI. My guess is it generates 1500-2000 cars a year. NS would sell the line for the same reason Class 1's sell most of its branch lines, they want to get away from switching as much as possible and focus on running trains from point A to point B with as few stops as possible. That's where they make their money.

[railohio]

Wouldn't this be a guaranteed flow of traffic for NS? Why would they give that over to ADBF?

It still is. Adrian & Blissfield has two interchanges with NS and one with the Indiana & Ohio. And any sale/lease agreement can include paper interchange barriers as well, thereby giving NS the long haul and eliminating the maintenance and operation of a one-customer branch.

[Y@]

Maybe someone familar with Indiana Northeastern can tell us how they handle NS power.

NS power comes in on grain trains and stays with the train through the duration of loading.

[MDH]

On the Clinton, almost all of the time the NS yard crew will bring empties up and return with the light power and then a couple days later run back up with light power to fetch the loads. It's very rare that NS leaves power sitting up at Ottawa Lake.

Having said that though, if ADBF took over the Clinton down to the Mega then one of two things could happen - NS could shove empties up the Clinton for ADBF to haul up & load or they could deliver a complete train with engines and probably not get them back until it's loaded. I could see it working either way, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out but as a pure guess I'd think it's more likely they'd shove the empties onto the Clinton rather than lose their road power for several days - especially for the times when it's just a cut of a dozen or two cars rather than a full unit train.

Guess we'll see what happens...

[MDH]

My guess is it generates 1500-2000 cars a year. NS would sell the line for the same reason Class 1's sell most of its branch lines, they want to get away from switching as much as possible and focus on running trains from point A to point B with as few stops as possible. That's where they make their money.

I'd bet your guess is way low. Most recent published (and sourced from NS) was approx. 50 unit trains per year. Even if you figured on 80 car trains that'd be 4,000 cars a year. During grain rush it seems like some of those train sets are longer than that but I haven't counted. They also do some occasional loose car runs of a dozen or two cars at a time during other parts of the year in addition to the unit trains.

[AARR]

My guess is it generates 1500-2000 cars a year. NS would sell the line for the same reason Class 1's sell most of its branch lines, they want to get away from switching as much as possible and focus on running trains from point A to point B with as few stops as possible. That's where they make their money.

I'd bet your guess is way low. Most recent published (and sourced from NS) was approx. 50 unit trains per year. Even if you figured on 80 car trains that'd be 4,000 cars a year. During grain rush it seems like some of those train sets are longer than that but I haven't counted. They also do some occasional loose car runs of a dozen or two cars at a time during other parts of the year in addition to the unit trains.

Thanks for the correction, MDH.

[CERY]

MDH I don't doubt you but is there a link to your source?

[Standard Railfan]

...Class 1's sell most of its branch lines, they want to get away from switching as much as possible and focus on running trains from point A to point B with as few stops as possible. That's where they make their money.

Forgetting that all those cars have to come from someplace...