Q195/Q196 train length

[ns8401]

admin edit: split this off from the CSX daily update of 1/10/11
Did they really run two units Detroit to Chicago lite engine? This reminds me of Railroad Tycoon where the engines will run lite until they have something to pick up...

[BL2-1843]

For some of you west siders who usually make a big to do on how short Q195 is on Monday ought to do so again tonight for Q19510 is just going over the DD at Fowlerville at 17:38 with an axel count of 12. That would be just his two units, 157 7360. But hey, they did run it.

Who makes a big "to do" on that?

Read earlier data from Monday nights early Tuesday mornings to see the many comments since these trains started on how short Q195 often is on Monday's. Its from the same people who get so excieted to see 7000-9000 feet long trains, yet never commenting that 80% of the train are all empties.

Regarding last night, yes they ran Q195 all the way to Chicago engines light. Now mind you, they could have run an "X-0??" train to get this power back to Chicago, but its more easier for the bean counters to pat each other on the backs on how fast Q19510 got from Detroit to Chicago,, never minding it had no cars.

[J T]

Regarding last night, yes they ran Q195 all the way to Chicago engines light. Now mind you, they could have run an "X-0??" train to get this power back to Chicago, but its more easier for the bean counters to pat each other on the backs on how fast Q19510 got from Detroit to Chicago,, never minding it had no cars.

Does CSX factor this waste of fuel into their commercials where they brag so much about how much freight they can move on so little fuel?

[AARR]

SCRAP loads are going crazy so someone is making steel sheet and other steel products for someone out there. Lumber loads in West Michigan are running much better this winter.

China is / was buying a lot of scrap. but I think the mills in USA are doing much better too.
Not sure where the lumber going cause housing remains depressed. Maybe the lumber is for pallet and package manufacturing...I didn't realize how much lumber is used for that.

[~Z~]

A thought on these Q195/q196's that have been being ran that I don't believe has been addressed: the containers that are on the train, are they themselves loaded? Since the customers may not be minding too much about the length of time it takes to get from detroit to chicago and back, maybe a good number are empty and in not so much of a need to get the containers to the customer so fast. Any thoughts or insights?

[Raildudes dad]

Do you think every 53 footer on the highway is loaded? Lots of empty back-haul trucks out there too. They try to get back-hauls but it doesn't always happen. They have to bobtail tractors sometime also. In this case CSX needs the engines, just don't have any cars to go that way

[~Z~]

No, I don't think every 53 footer is loaded, and that's exactly my point. I'm asking if some of the trucking companies inquired about running more of their empties back via CSX since they may not need to get back to the customer and instead needed to go back to Detroit or Chicago to a storage lot waiting to be used again. I'd guess some of the containers are loaded, but I wonder just how many are empty containers.

[GLC 392]

I couldn't have said it better Doc. Look at say NS when they have a 9?? head to Chicago from Bellevue with say 12 engines with 1 or two running you get 4 or 5 trains going back east that fuel they lost was made up with in the first mile or two with the eastbound trains. On the scrap side of your comment we are getting a lot of scrap metal in and ET is making a lot of slab steel which in turn is turning out to alot of coils going to the NS and CSX and yesterday they put on a extra crew at ET to load 38 out bound gons of slabs.

[Mr. Tops]

Grand Rapids fans are just not used to seeing light engines other than perhaps heading to Webberville/Grand Ledge for a grain train. As Doc and RDD have said, you need to have equipment in place to run trains...engines, well cars, containers, etc. UP regularly runs empty (as in baretables) intermodal trains. Occasionally, they'll run an entire train of empty containers. There's an example on UP tonight; IMNCSR with 85 loads (actually empty containers) for Canal Street.

There is a locomotive plan for each unit, or rather a set of engines most of the time. Like Q335's power usually goes back on Q334. On UP, MASIH's power usually goes back south on ZYCHO. So whatever train Q195's power usually goes out on from Chicago, wouldn't have had any power if Q195 (their power, anyway) hadn't run.

Sometimes you'll see a train with more power than it appears to need. That's because they are ferrying power to where it is needed...it's not being used to power the train, basically deadheading power. Crews get deadheaded, engines, cars and even EOT's get deadheaded! This same principal goes for empty well cars on Q195/Q196, deadheading them to where they are needed. On UP tonight, ZMQYC is 6100 feet; 23 loads, 62 empties. It's all in the logistics of railroading. As stingy as the higher ups are, believe me, they wouldn't run a set of light engines just for the heck of it.

[BL2-1843]

This is true, any train can have one hundred or more containers and they could all be empty. I guess the point is, that it is 100 trucks off the highway. The "loads" shown on these trains are cars with containers on them, regardless if the container is loaded or empty. Another point is, you can have a five pack car, and if there was only one container on the car, even though it would hold 10 if double stacked, its still considered a load. It is all decieving regardless if your going by load/empty count, or the length of train.

I remember when Ogihara was shipping auto parts out of Howell right and left. The auto parts were put on racks in the car, and when they got to the plant, the parts were removed and the the empty racks and the railroad cars they were in were returned to Ogihara. Even if the car had no auto parts coming back, because they had racks in them, they were considered loads no matter which way they went.

[Raildudes dad]

No, I don't think every 53 footer is loaded, and that's exactly my point. I'm asking if some of the trucking companies inquired about running more of their empties back via CSX since they may not need to get back to the customer and instead needed to go back to Detroit or Chicago to a storage lot waiting to be used again. I'd guess some of the containers are loaded, but I wonder just how many are empty containers.

Sorry "you" wasn't directed at your question but rather the light engine move. Wife says I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer this afternoon. Had trouble adding 2 + 4 + 4 and getting the correct answer several times no less (was hours on the clock for meds if that qualifies as an excuse)

[ns8401]

I can remember when NS ran 38J through Ann Arbor that it would have as many as 7 engines, and usually they were lite returning to Jackson where they would pick up 39J and run to Elkhart with a big train, it's just funny to think about but it makes great sense.

Grand Rapids fans are just not used to seeing light engines other than perhaps heading to Webberville/Grand Ledge for a grain train. As Doc and RDD have said, you need to have equipment in place to run trains...engines, well cars, containers, etc. UP regularly runs empty (as in baretables) intermodal trains. Occasionally, they'll run an entire train of empty containers. There's an example on UP tonight; IMNCSR with 85 loads (actually empty containers) for Canal Street.

There is a locomotive plan for each unit, or rather a set of engines most of the time. Like Q335's power usually goes back on Q334. On UP, MASIH's power usually goes back south on ZYCHO. So whatever train Q195's power usually goes out on from Chicago, wouldn't have had any power if Q195 (their power, anyway) hadn't run.

Sometimes you'll see a train with more power than it appears to need. That's because they are ferrying power to where it is needed...it's not being used to power the train, basically deadheading power. Crews get deadheaded, engines, cars and even EOT's get deadheaded! This same principal goes for empty well cars on Q195/Q196, deadheading them to where they are needed. On UP tonight, ZMQYC is 6100 feet; 23 loads, 62 empties. It's all in the logistics of railroading. As stingy as the higher ups are, believe me, they wouldn't run a set of light engines just for the heck of it.

[DLM]

Eastbound is effected by ship arrivals on the west coast and how many 20' and 40' containers are routed to Detroit and when the western railroads hand them off to CSX. Westbound is generally empty 20's and 40's routed back to Asia due to trade inbalance. When empties and loads come in the gate at the Detroit ramp, they are moved out as quickly as possible. Some days lots of containers arrive at the Detroit ramp and other days are light. This makes it tough for the railroad to plan.

Most 53's are moving with loads. They only move empty when they are repositioned due to a large surplus in a city a need someplace else. Empty 53' containers from the east coast move almost daily to Chicago. The NE is full of consumers of freight with very few producers of freight.

[chapmaja]

I caught NS in Chelsea a couple times with more engines than cars. One time they had 9 engines, 4 or 5 of them high horsepower units, plus lower horsepower units used in local service on the train heading EB. This normally was Friday's when they would take the engines to Wayne or the other big NS Yard which excapes me now (Melvindale).

They would have 9 engines or so and 5 cars heading EB. Looked strange to see them switching Jiffy like that too. Normally only one o two engines were online, but it was strange to see.

[SD80MAC]

Q326/327 used to routinely be 6 or 7 engines between Grand Rapids and Lansing back when both D708 and D709 were running out of Ensel with a pair of Geeps each. Often there were more engines than cars!

[J T]

JT you NEED ENGINES TO MOVE A TRAIN. Moving units to move a train is NOT wasting fuel.

My post was a bit tongue in cheek, Dok.

[BL2-1843]

Q326/327 used to routinely be 6 or 7 engines between Grand Rapids and Lansing back when both D708 and D709 were running out of Ensel with a pair of Geeps each. Often there were more engines than cars!

Am really showing my age again on this one, but I remember long after the Saginaw Ludington line was broken up, but Saginaw to Midland was still open, Saginaw and Flint diesel shops had closed, CSX, (or Chessie) used to run trains 332 & 333 out of GR to Midland. Train may have run all the way to Chicago, but every Saturday night, 333 picked up all the local power from Midland, Saginaw and Flint, and brought it to Grand Rapids for serviceing our just plain fueling, and then returned or changed out the power for its Sunday night return to Midland out of GR. This train ran with 9-12 units every weekend. Loved that train!!!

[KC8RBK]

Just for a little insight on empty miles in trucking. Usually trucks wont go more than a couple hundred miles empty. Usually the longer empty runs are because of the particular area of the country you are in. In Florida a fair percentage of north bound dry vans are empty. There just isn't anything made in Fl, they are mostly consumers. When I used to go down there I would regularly come back to southern Georgia, Al or the Carolina's for a load. The worst Dead head I've been a party to was Nevada to Michigan. That was only after two weeks of waiting for the company to find a load. Local work is a little different. The company I work for now hauls empty trailers back to Lansing from Grand Rapids and Detroit every day.