Who Owns Rail Bridges?

[azimmer]

When a rail line intersects a public highway and the rail line passes over the road, who owns the bridge? I would think that the bridge is a public bridge, owned by the state, but I am not sure. Driving through Detroit, for example, the rail bridges that cross over the freeway and other streets seem to be in a state of neglect compared to the road overpasses. For this reason I would guess that the railroad is the owner. But when the state builds a freeway, or other roadway, it seems that the state should also be responsible for any necessary bridges.

AZ

[TrainWatcher]

Well I know from hearing about it, before they built I275 through Plymouth/Livonia Area the C&O was a straight shot from Detroit. Whe they installed I275 they put in the curve at Levan Rd, and also added a curve under 275 on the entrance to East Yard. MDOT Owns those bridges.

Now when they built the new underpass at Sheldon/M-14 in Plymouth, CSX/CP from what I understand had to fit most of the bill. So I would presume CSX owns the bridge. But, I do not know all the facts.

[sd70accsxt700]

Well I know from hearing about it, before they built I275 through Plymouth/Livonia Area the C&O was a straight shot from Detroit. Whe they installed I275 they put in the curve at Levan Rd, and also added a curve under 275 on the entrance to East Yard.

Are you sure about that? Who told you? Who ever told you that is feeding you a line of Bull. You can prove that just by looking at old photos. Also if you look at a down on view, you can see that the two never lined up for that to happen.

[Stitch]

All the maps I have in old books pre and post I275 indicate no striaght shot to Detroit the line is pretty consistant with the current configuration. Looking at the google maps, as I have lately, the little jog under 275 doesn't look to have been done because of I275's construction. From what I can see the only thing that probably was affected was the current/former/whatever it is railserver business under and to the East of the overpass. I will say the overpass is owned by MDOT as far as other railroad bridges they are owned by the railroad. So the Sheldon road bridge is CSX's baby or until CP/MQT/Amtrak/COE/GRE/LSRC/SOO/C&O or whatever flavor of the month railroad takes over the line.

[Raildudes dad]

When a rail line intersects a public highway and the rail line passes over the road, who owns the bridge? I would think that the bridge is a public bridge, owned by the state, but I am not sure. Driving through Detroit, for example, the rail bridges that cross over the freeway and other streets seem to be in a state of neglect compared to the road overpasses. For this reason I would guess that the railroad is the owner. But when the state builds a freeway, or other roadway, it seems that the state should also be responsible for any necessary bridges.

AZ

You may confusing ownership with construction funding. Most rail bridges over a highway are owned by the RR. The only exception I can think of would be the GLC. Their bridges are owned by the DOT. The RR's are responsible for the maintenance of the bridges they operate over. Some of the later agreements have the highway authority responsible for the abutments / sub structure and the RR responsible only for the deck / superstructure.

Construction funding is another a animal. After the Rail re codification of 1994, the requesting party is responsible for funding. So if the highway authority wants to construct a grade separation ie Sheldon Road in Plymouth or Patterson Ave in GR, it's their responsibility to pay for the construction. Maintenance will be subject to negotiation. Railroad typical will agree to "maintain " the bridges they operate over. Maintenance include the bi-annual structural inspections and I know my employer does not want the responsibility for inspecting a RR deck / superstructure.

Just because a railroad works on a bridge project doesn't mean they are paying for the work. Any work by the RR is eligible to be reimbursed by the project funding.

[TrainWatcher]

Well I know from hearing about it, before they built I275 through Plymouth/Livonia Area the C&O was a straight shot from Detroit. Whe they installed I275 they put in the curve at Levan Rd, and also added a curve under 275 on the entrance to East Yard.

Are you sure about that? Who told you? Who ever told you that is feeding you a line of Bull. You can prove that just by looking at old photos. Also if you look at a down on view, you can see that the two never lined up for that to happen.

Well I have seen photos in the Ford Livonia Trans Plant Office that showed NO Curve present at Levan 1952. Even, there was NO YARD at Levan. Even the spur that Ford Livonia was served by was a small bout of straight track. Now CSX (when they USED to deliver Tankers) has to go AROUND the truck shipping dock. Boxes are put in at the end of the Truck Dock. So, there was or had to be an ALTERNATE because the CURVE was not there.

[CAT345C]

We all know whe feed james that bull...........apfoijaewfoipewjepicfailwapoefuaew;lkjfwaopieurwaepoeruj.........

[azimmer]

Maintenance include the bi-annual structural inspections and I know my employer does not want the responsibility for inspecting a RR deck / superstructure.

Thanks for the clarification.

But your point here raises another question. Why wouldn't your employer want the responsibility of inspecting a railroad bridge? As far as I can tell, the structural features of a railroad bridge are not any different from an ordinary highway bridge. Most RR overpasses are just a simple beam or box girder design. Longer spans may be trusses or arched trusses but then so too are longer highway spans.

Maybe it's only because of the additional cost involved of inspecting more bridges.

AZ

[PAT.C]

FEAR OF LAWSUITS---LIABILITY---.
WHEN SOMETHING DOES GO WRONG, THEY DON'T WANT TO BE ON THE LIST OF THOSE BEING SUED .
I BELIEVE THE TERM 'DEEP POCKETS' APPLIES HERE.

[sd70accsxt700]

Well if that photo is correct, then there was another curve somewhere west of the Ford plant, where GM was. There are two photos in the Morning Sun Book C&O Vol 2, that shows 2-8-4's passing east yard in 1947 (5 years before your photo), and the tracks have a curve down about where I-275 is. So there might have been a curve somewhere, but you claim of it being "arrow strate" is wrong. Like I said before, if you look at a google earth or somthing, you can see the line out of Oak yard, is almost strate, and is also a block south of where the tracks at east yard are, so there had to be a curve somewhere.

[Raildudes dad]

[quote="azimmer
But your point here raises another question. Why wouldn't your employer want the responsibility of inspecting a railroad bridge? As far as I can tell, the structural features of a railroad bridge are not any different from an ordinary highway bridge. Most RR overpasses are just a simple beam or box girder design. Longer spans may be trusses or arched trusses but then so too are longer highway spans.

Maybe it's only because of the additional cost involved of inspecting more bridges.

AZ[/quote]

I work for a highway authority and am the engineer responsible for our bridge inspections (177 of them ) It's part of my job to determine if they are safe for vehicular travel, or need to be restricted or closed . In theory, any load over a legal load is reviewed and permitted by our office. In other words, I know the loading and frequency that is occuring on our bridges. I also usually schedule any maintenance needed or any testing required.

I have no idea of the frequecy or loads being applied to the RR bridges within our juridiction. The overloads are handled by the railroad. Nor do I have knowledge of any maintenance or testing that occurs.

Sort version, if the loads on a structure are trains, it's the RR's responsibity for the inspection, if the loads are cars and trucks, it's the highway authority's responsiblity.

I still need to look at them every two years since they are over our roads . I'm just not responsible for signing that they're safe for rail traffic

[TrainWatcher]

Well if that photo is correct, then there was another curve somewhere west of the Ford plant, where GM was. There are two photos in the Morning Sun Book C&O Vol 2, that shows 2-8-4's passing east yard in 1947 (5 years before your photo), and the tracks have a curve down about where I-275 is. So there might have been a curve somewhere, but you claim of it being "arrow strate" is wrong. Like I said before, if you look at a google earth or somthing, you can see the line out of Oak yard, is almost strate, and is also a block south of where the tracks at east yard are, so there had to be a curve somewhere.

Ok Matt. I do agree with that. My throught was that it was a STRAIGHTER shot than currently. Not DIRECTLY meaning a straight Line from DTown. But I digress....

Mike... Let it go man, you know I aint like Epic Fail here or is it Sham-Wow now???