PRR GG1 coming to Dearborn!

[James Sofonia]

Why wouldn't they move it on it's own wheels ? Most other locomotives are shipped that way.

[PerRock]

Why wouldn't they move it on it's own wheels ? Most other locomotives are shipped that way.

It's got some major problems (brakes I think is the big one) so no major railroad will allow it to operate over their tracks.

peter

[NS3322]

Then how was it possible to truck a Big Boy?

This is how they moved the Big Boy #4014.



Photo by Sean Rodkey

[MQT1223]

Then how was it possible to truck a Big Boy?

This is how they moved the Big Boy #4014.



Photo by Sean Rodkey

I think that he was referring to how they moved 4023 nearly 10 years ago. It was moved on a special heavy duty rig throughout the streets of Omaha. It could've been done by rail to some extent but they couldn't have pushed it up the hill it now sits on. It barely turned a wheel in the whole ordeal.

UP towed 4014 because they could, and because it was a huge publicity stunt on their part to celebrate the eventual return of this legendary machine to its home rails for the first time in 60 years. At the same time much work was performed to even get it to be towed, such as a partial rebuild of the brake system and a rebuild of the lubrication system to the point that it could be worked manually. Every lubrication point was flushed, cleaned and lubed again.

This was even done to move Big Boy 4018 across Dallas via BNSF, and that trip was a small walk in the park compared to the move of 4014 and possible move of the GG1.

Granted a GG1 has its differences, but the weight is on a much smaller area and its much more rigid then even the mighty Big Boy.

[James Sofonia]

Why wouldn't they move it on it's own wheels ? Most other locomotives are shipped that way.

It's got some major problems (brakes I think is the big one) so no major railroad will allow it to operate over their tracks.

peter

So. Why don't they fix them, going to have to anyhow if it going to be restored and operated again.

[Schteinkuh]

Why wouldn't they move it on it's own wheels ? Most other locomotives are shipped that way.

It's got some major problems (brakes I think is the big one) so no major railroad will allow it to operate over their tracks.

peter

So. Why don't they fix them, going to have to anyhow if it going to be restored and operated again.

Where would Henry Ford Museum even run it?

[fmilhaupt]

Why wouldn't they move it on it's own wheels ? Most other locomotives are shipped that way.

It's got some major problems (brakes I think is the big one) so no major railroad will allow it to operate over their tracks.

peter

So. Why don't they fix them, going to have to anyhow if it going to be restored and operated again.

Being operated again was never in the plan for the GG1. It'd get a cosmetic restoration, then be stuffed and mounted.

[MQT1223]

I think operating a GG1 again is totally out of the question since most have to have all the internals removed in order to make them safe to display. There has always been talk of putting AEM-7 guts in a GG1 similar to how say the UP and NS rebuilt their E and F units with components out of newer Geeps. Even if you get that far, you'd have to try and solve the problem of the cracking frames, which in the later years of operation cracks were a serious problem.

[Saturnalia]

In so many words, somebody would need to couple REALLY wanting it to happen with the extraordinary amount of dollars required to make it happen. Classify it as unlikely, at least in the current point of view.

[James Sofonia]

So. Why don't they fix them, going to have to anyhow if it going to be restored and operated again.

Might be my wishfull thinking, but they do have that giant circle track around Greenfield village that might be used, sure would be cool. Cost? cmon they have the bucks.

[MQT1223]

I think restoring a GG1 to the point it moves will put the cost of most steam restorations to shame.

[EWRice]

Depending on where it is in NY, it may be far cheaper and easier to move by barge/ship. They won't care about bearings, couplers, brakes, etc. Maybe the LST or Liberty Ship group could do it. That way, money would stay in the preservation community. Just some thoughts...

[MSchwiebert]

I don't know how far the museum is into this financially, but the question I have is - Why bother? There's what, 10-15 GG1's that are already preserved (or are in various states of preservation) already? Wouldn't make more sense to go after something else that has more of a local connection? At some point one would think they would have breach the diesel era so they could illustrate why the era of steam (like the 1604) came to a close. Or if they want to skip the first generation of diesels, they could go with a second generation locomotive that's locally significant - like say, the former DT&I 200, or even one of the Detroit Edison U-Boats (if any are still in the Deadline on the LS&I) if they can't stomach the idea of having a GM product in the Ford museum. I'm sure there's other things out there besides these that would make more sense than having yet another GG1 stuffed and mounted.

[MQT1223]

I don't know how far the museum is into this financially, but the question I have is - Why bother? There's what, 10-15 GG1's that are already preserved (or are in various states of preservation) already? Wouldn't make more sense to go after something else that has more of a local connection? At some point one would think they would have breach the diesel era so they could illustrate why the era of steam (like the 1604) came to a close. Or if they want to skip the first generation of diesels, they could go with a second generation locomotive that's locally significant - like say, the former DT&I 200, or even one of the Detroit Edison U-Boats (if any are still in the Deadline on the LS&I) if they can't stomach the idea of having a GM product in the Ford museum. I'm sure there's other things out there besides these that would make more sense than having yet another GG1 stuffed and mounted.

10-15 out of a class of over 100 is a fairly small number, and this one is in desperate need of a restoration.

[Saturnalia]

10-15 out of a class of over 100 is a fairly small number, and this one is in desperate need of a restoration.

Wait...what?

[sp4380]

I was in Cooperstown Junction last year. The GG1's were parked in the woods a couple hundred yards off the main line; However, the track had been severed from the main and no longer accessible.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100474706 ... ed-public/

Terry

[MSchwiebert]

So we have over 10% of the class still in existence, and other than the first one being cosmetically different - the rest are the same. It's a problem that's widespread in the rail preservation field, too many museums have too much equipment that isn't relevant to the story that they're trying to tell and that they keep up with from a repair and maintenance perspective.

I don't know how far the museum is into this financially, but the question I have is - Why bother? There's what, 10-15 GG1's that are already preserved (or are in various states of preservation) already? Wouldn't make more sense to go after something else that has more of a local connection? At some point one would think they would have breach the diesel era so they could illustrate why the era of steam (like the 1604) came to a close. Or if they want to skip the first generation of diesels, they could go with a second generation locomotive that's locally significant - like say, the former DT&I 200, or even one of the Detroit Edison U-Boats (if any are still in the Deadline on the LS&I) if they can't stomach the idea of having a GM product in the Ford museum. I'm sure there's other things out there besides these that would make more sense than having yet another GG1 stuffed and mounted.

10-15 out of a class of over 100 is a fairly small number, and this one is in desperate need of a restoration.

[Steve B]

With regard to MSchwiebert's comments, the Henry Ford already exhibits several GM artifacts, including at least a Riviera, Corvair and Bel Air.

And, the Henry Ford Museum has always been national in scope; the Allegheny certainly never set foot in Michigan. A GG1 at the Henry Ford would reach a far, far larger audience than any of the other museums that host one (well over a million people annually) and it would be kept in much better condition than some of the other survivors.

I agree that the GG1 was luckier than most locomotive classes with its preservation rate, but exhibiting one would not contradict anything in the organization's mission statement: "The Henry Ford provides unique educational experiences based on authentic objects, stories and lives from America's traditions of ingenuity, resourcefulness and innovation. Our purpose is to inspire people to learn from these traditions to help shape a better future."

But, did the museum thoroughly research the logistics of moving it before buying, or just assume that things would fall into place?

Also, where would they put it? There's no room inside unless something else is moved out. A building addition maybe?

[MSchwiebert]

All valid points, but I still think there's better things to chase after than yet another GG1.

[Ypsi]

My thought is it is neat for railfans who cannot easily travel to museums that do have them, and is very useful for the public who have never seen one before. Much like the 1604, having such a large piece in a collection can really draw eyes even if people don't know a thing about it.