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Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:21 pm
by CSXT8390
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 10:34 am
CSXT8390 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:49 am
amessmann wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:04 pm
I wonder if the switch indicator is just for the elevator, Webberville has an interlocked switch with a dwarf facing the plant.
We never even acknowledge that dwarf signal. Once we have permission to open up on the main line, that signal is meaningless to us. Sometimes it gives us a slow approach, sometimes it gives us stop, sometimes it never even comes to life.
Same with the dwarf at Ann Pere off of the interchange, basically just a block occupancy indicator.
Yep! When the Y297 is working at the GRE, there is a dwarf there as well… doesn’t matter what it shows, we move back to the main when we are done and close up.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:03 am
by Doktor No
Same with the dwarf on the GRE interchange up at Fuller. When I first started going up there in 1999ish, we called Tammy the Dispatcher one fine afternoon. She had no knowledge of that signal, wasn't on her board. From then on...fagetaboud it. We had permission to leave the switch open, do our work, report the switch closed after clearing and return to the next signal southward going back to the yard.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:22 am
by CSXT8390
Doktor No wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:03 am
Same with the dwarf on the GRE interchange up at Fuller. When I first started going up there in 1999ish, we called Tammy the Dispatcher one fine afternoon. She had no knowledge of that signal, wasn't on her board. From then on...fagetaboud it. We had permission to leave the switch open, do our work, report the switch closed after clearing and return to the next signal southward going back to the yard.
Pretty much still how it works. We ignore the GRE signals and only work with the Fuller Diamond and Market Street signals.
Also - Tammy was working the RA desk a few nights ago. LOL
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:36 pm
by SD80MAC
I never found anything about the aforementioned dwarfs at Ann Pere, Fuller, or Fowlerville in the timetable, either. Whatever, send it!
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:04 pm
by CSXT8390
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:36 pm
I never found anything about the aforementioned dwarfs at Ann Pere, Fuller, or Fowlerville in the timetable, either. Whatever, send it!
We just had a new GR Subdivision bulletin address a timetable change last week. Not related to any of these signals specifically as they are on the GR Terminal Sub and the Plymouth Sub, but they are updating things. I wouldn't be surprised if they update the notes in the timetables for these signals once they finish the work on the Plymouth.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:18 pm
by amessmann
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:36 pm
I never found anything about the aforementioned dwarfs at Ann Pere, Fuller, or Fowlerville in the timetable, either. Whatever, send it!
Where is the dwarf at Fowlerville? I would've expected Asahi Kasei but none appear in my pictures of the lead into the industry.
Does it protect the spur at the west end of the siding?
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:17 pm
by pudgy
No signal at Asahi as it's not a control point. West end has the track that runs into the Co-op elevator, ties into the siding right at the West End control point, so a signal was required. Used to have similar set up at West end Williamston, but that signal was removed earlier this year and the switch was taken out of service for the track it protected.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:53 pm
by Saturnalia
Not certain if it is a railroad by railroad or FRA thing, but usually for a mainline switch in signal territory either a dwarf “come-out” signal or an electric switch lock is required. Many places prefer the signal so as to minimize the moveable parts that need to be maintained and tested. At the railroad I am most familiar with, they are absolute signals with the force of any other, but are not dispatcher controlled. Most are equipped to push button requests that tumble down the blocks and then after a certain time display a proceed indication.
However, this point is typically moot since trains occupying the main track already have the requisite main track authority and thus the signal becomes essentially meaningless - and these signals usually protect customer spurs or sidings where the train isn’t departing from behind the signal, in other words they arrive and depart from the main.
Many a maintenance of way employee has been burned on efficiency testing for not requesting authority past the signal displaying stop when entering their track authority by passing these signals, when bringing machines out of the clear.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:27 pm
by MQT1223
amessmann wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:04 pm
MQT1223 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:07 pm
So then you'd only have Lake Odessa and Trowbridge as your nearby sidings?...Do any of the sidings on the Plymouth Sub exceed 10,000 feet?
The only 10,000' double track is between Plymouth and Beck Road, Ensel and Trowbridge are the next largest. Many of the sidings west of Ensel are less than 6,000'. In addition, the single track between WE Grand Ledge and EE Lake Odessa works out to 21.3 miles per the timetable. I am curious about where you heard that the new CEO wants to send more our way, I'm trying not to get my hopes up as there is always a rumor.
Meets typically occur east of Ensel and the local work west of there is done at night by L304. I suppose that could be the reason L303 and L302 go on duty at such different times, to keep traffic light west of Ensel. I wonder if the switch indicator is just for the elevator, Webberville has an interlocked switch with a dwarf facing the plant. Have we considered that they don't intend to re-signal the area? Given the light traffic and the current TWCD operations, I could see CSX deciding to run the area as dark territory from now on, though that idea conflicts with the theoretical construction work we are seeing.
I'll take this time to add that there IS a satellite dish at WE Brighton up on the hill instead of atop the bungalow, it was not in my pictures from October 24th so it must've been installed in the last week or so.
Heard it straight from the horses mouth when he was up here a few weeks ago, rolled up in a black suburban according to people that were there and was around for the day checking things out.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:20 pm
by GP30M4216
amessmann wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 3:18 pm
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:36 pm
I never found anything about the aforementioned dwarfs at Ann Pere, Fuller, or Fowlerville in the timetable, either. Whatever, send it!
Where is the dwarf at Fowlerville? I would've expected Asahi Kasei but none appear in my pictures of the lead into the industry.
Does it protect the spur at the west end of the siding?
Is Jon Hall in the house? His photo from 2009 depicts the two light dwarf at WE Fowlerville from the elevator spur:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1851157
Most times during the warm months of the year, and in most photos you find online, this signal is obscured from ground level by a sea of prairie grass growing up along and through the spur.
I recall seeing some photos from the 1990s(?) of a short siding on the south (east) side of the main at Bangor, across from the passenger depot on the Grand Rapids Sub, which was protected at both ends by dwarfs. Apparently this practice used to be more common. Kind of a lost detail today, but would be fun to add to a model railroad!
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 9:21 am
by Typhoon
CSXT8390 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:22 am
Doktor No wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 11:03 am
Same with the dwarf on the GRE interchange up at Fuller. When I first started going up there in 1999ish, we called Tammy the Dispatcher one fine afternoon. She had no knowledge of that signal, wasn't on her board. From then on...fagetaboud it. We had permission to leave the switch open, do our work, report the switch closed after clearing and return to the next signal southward going back to the yard.
Pretty much still how it works. We ignore the GRE signals and only work with the Fuller Diamond and Market Street signals.
Also - Tammy was working the RA desk a few nights ago. LOL
That is a different Tammy.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:31 am
by SD80MAC
I was gonna say, last I knew TAK(T) was happily retired in Florida!
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:38 pm
by Typhoon
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:31 am
I was gonna say, last I knew TAK(T) was happily retired in Florida!
Nope, 1st RL. She is TAC now.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:41 am
by Steve B
amessmann wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 7:04 pm
MQT1223 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:07 pm
Have we considered that they don't intend to re-signal the area? Given the light traffic and the current TWCD operations, I could see CSX deciding to run the area as dark territory from now on
That would require an application to the FRA. In 2013 CSX asked for permission to remove the Plymouth Sub TCS and it was denied.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:35 am
by SD80MAC
Typhoon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:38 pm
SD80MAC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:31 am
I was gonna say, last I knew TAK(T) was happily retired in Florida!
Nope, 1st RL. She is TAC now.
Good for her, I didn’t realize she went back to work.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:59 pm
by bluewonderrails
At least one new bungalow was recently added east of Ingersoll Rd CH 94.20 in Lansing on the Plymouth sub, but very close to EE outskirts of Grand Ledge. Seen when rounding the bend of the northwest part of Hawk Meadow Park where the pathway is paved.
CH-93.64 is labeled on the new one. For the time being though there's not much going on there. I'm curious if it "might be" a potential spot for a new defect detector as there's a 24.4 mile gap (not the longest gap of course) between the ones in Mulliken (104.3) and Okemos (79.9). If my theory if right then it would benefit something like a loaded grain train coming out of ADM Grand Ledge that would give off an earlier reading prior to Okemos.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:29 am
by LansingRailFan
bluewonderrails wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:59 pm
At least one new bungalow was recently added east of Ingersoll Rd CH 94.20 in Lansing on the Plymouth sub, but very close to EE outskirts of Grand Ledge. Seen when rounding the bend of the northwest part of Hawk Meadow Park where the pathway is paved.
CH-93.64 is labeled on the new one. For the time being though there's not much going on there. I'm curious if it "might be" a potential spot for a new defect detector as there's a 24.4 mile gap (not the longest gap of course) between the ones in Mulliken (104.3) and Okemos (79.9). If my theory if right then it would benefit something like a loaded grain train coming out of ADM Grand Ledge that would give off an earlier reading prior to Okemos.
That Bungalow is currently on the market. It's on Zillow for $135k. These tiny house people are nuts.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 am
by Talk
New Signal at CH 104.3 and CH 94.20? (Intermediate on the east end of Grand Ledge)
New Signals on the ground in Grand Ledge with crews working as of 08:00 2/1/2024
New Signal Bungalow at 100.87 in Grand Ledge as well
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:55 pm
by Jetlink
Talk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 am
New Signal at CH 104.3 and CH 94.20? (Intermediate on the east end of Grand Ledge)
New Signals on the ground in Grand Ledge with crews working as of 08:00 2/1/2024
New Signal Bungalow at 100.87 in Grand Ledge as well
I thought ch 104.3 is the Cochran road defect detector. I don’t recall there being signals there.
Re: Plymouth & GR sub-div Work
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 12:55 am
by pudgy
Jetlink wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 11:55 pm
Talk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:03 am
New Signal at CH 104.3 and CH 94.20? (Intermediate on the east end of Grand Ledge)
New Signals on the ground in Grand Ledge with crews working as of 08:00 2/1/2024
New Signal Bungalow at 100.87 in Grand Ledge as well
I thought ch 104.3 is the Cochran road defect detector. I don’t recall there being signals there.
That's right, it will replace 105.