Autorack Shortage?

[conrailmike]

Putting this in the Michigan section only because I work at GM LDT.

Right now if you drive through the city of Lansing, you'll notice in empty lots (such as the empty space where Fisher Body used to be) that there are lots of brand new GM crossovers parked and not being shipped. We're hearing rumors of a shortage of autoracks, anyone know if this is true?

[astrovanman1989]

my dad used to work at delta township now he is at grand river in the body shop
maybee there stocking up for spring

[GreatLakesRailfan]

I thought the autoracks were assigned to pools, the way other equipment is assigned.

There have been a lot of new looking autoracks showing up in the autorack trains I've seen in Port Huron lately, as well as several rebuilt autoracks. It's possible a significant part of the fleet has hit the point at which rebuilding is necessary and has lead to a shortage, but that strikes me as unlikely to be the sole reason behind a shortage.

[AARR]

It's possible a significant part of the fleet has hit the point at which rebuilding is necessary and has lead to a shortage

Hopefully that means more business for places like the TT (if they still run it) shops on CN's Holly Sub in Waterford (north of Pontiac)

[midland sub]

Not really a shortage but severe congestion problems on the Class 1s. Winter just threw everything off plus the new oil traffic has things really screwed up.

[GP9R]

CN also didn't request as many autoracks in their pool as the other Class ones, using EHH Method of "We can move the cars faster and more efficiently than everyone else."

[Jetlink]

I hear GM is overstocked. My father in law and a few other of my friends work there for them in Lansing. Target is around a 60 day inventory for new models. Currently many models have over a 230 day inventory. GM is taking a production break at the beginning of April and many of the employees in Lansing get a 'vacation' for a week or two. Could have something to do with the lots of cars you saw in Lansing.

[TrainWatcher]

We are hearing (work for a primary supplier to all the Big 3) that GM and Ford production levels are finally on the decrease this year and also for 2015 as they are making way for the aluminum F150 at Ford and also the 9 and 10 speed transmission production to begin in the next few years at both companies. 4 speed was discontinued around early 2012 in Ford products, and the 6 speeds are going to stay for the interim. Honestly, it's welcome news, as come May, we will be down to standard 40 hour work weeks for the first time in a year and a half!

[M.D.Bentley]

Yes there is a big demand for multilevels. Conrail has a bigger problem than the CSX or NS. Conrail will order a train of multilevels and before it reaches the East side, one of the parent companies will redirect it to one of their own facilities. Not good for the customers on Conrail that need them. The shortage started when the economy took a turn for the worse. The fleet of multilevels was reaching the 50 year mark and the railroads will not put money into fixing the cars up or putting them into storage, both cost money and produce no revenue. So, they waited for the economy to swing the other way and started to place orders for new cars. Until they build enough cars there will be a shortage.

[Norm]

DHS has them stored for the big roundup. Gotta love a good conspiracy theory.

[M.D.Bentley]

Norm may be onto something ! How will they transport all the citizens to the FEMA CAMPS ?

[conrailmike]

I hear GM is overstocked. My father in law and a few other of my friends work there for them in Lansing. Target is around a 60 day inventory for new models. Currently many models have over a 230 day inventory. GM is taking a production break at the beginning of April and many of the employees in Lansing get a 'vacation' for a week or two. Could have something to do with the lots of cars you saw in Lansing.

Um... No. There is no production break for us in April. LDT (Lansing Delta Township) has no scheduled down time in the foreseeable future, we actually have more Saturdays scheduled for April. The stockpiled vehicles in the lots are our crossovers we build at LDT and not the LGR Cadillac models. LGR (Lansing Grand River) may have some down time coming but that's the norm for them anymore.

We are hearing (work for a primary supplier to all the Big 3) that GM and Ford production levels are finally on the decrease this year and also for 2015 as they are making way for the aluminum F150 at Ford and also the 9 and 10 speed transmission production to begin in the next few years at both companies. 4 speed was discontinued around early 2012 in Ford products, and the 6 speeds are going to stay for the interim. Honestly, it's welcome news, as come May, we will be down to standard 40 hour work weeks for the first time in a year and a half!

Decrease? Lol, sure would like to know where they heard that because we haven't decreased anything as far as LDT is concerened. Matter of fact right now marketing has told LDT that they want every vehicle we can get off the line and that we are pretty much "carrying GM at the moment". 40 hour work week? What's that, I forget what it feels like lately to work 40 hours.... been 50-60 every week the past month or so.

[Jetlink]

I hear GM is overstocked. My father in law and a few other of my friends work there for them in Lansing. Target is around a 60 day inventory for new models. Currently many models have over a 230 day inventory. GM is taking a production break at the beginning of April and many of the employees in Lansing get a 'vacation' for a week or two. Could have something to do with the lots of cars you saw in Lansing.

Um... No. There is no production break for us in April. LDT (Lansing Delta Township) has no scheduled down time in the foreseeable future, we actually have more Saturdays scheduled for April. The stockpiled vehicles in the lots are our crossovers we build at LDT and not the LGR Cadillac models. LGR (Lansing Grand River) may have some down time coming but that's the norm for them anymore.

Hey Conrail Mike, I'm not sure what to say to respond to you but I \don't have any reason to think these guys are telling me wrong information. One is a really good friend of mine and the other is my father in law. Non union salaried types too. Yes one of them does work at LGR so that probably explains the time off comment from him. Either way, I'm not sure if this is related to the "Autorack Shortage?" or not. I just thought it was a tidbit that was interesting and might tie in with the topic.

I'm glad to hear that things are going well and you are keeping busy at LDT. I hope it continues; at least up to the point where the employees aren't stretched too thin. That makes things miserable when you start losing large parts of your personal and family time. Thanks for the post and the updates.

Cheers

[conrailmike]

Sorry, it wasn't supposed to sound pissy. Yeah, LGR seems to have had quite a bit of downtime..... must be nice

I did find this on the autoracks though. ....

https://www.phharval.com/home/news-and- ... rtage-rail

[TrainWatcher]

I hear GM is overstocked. My father in law and a few other of my friends work there for them in Lansing. Target is around a 60 day inventory for new models. Currently many models have over a 230 day inventory. GM is taking a production break at the beginning of April and many of the employees in Lansing get a 'vacation' for a week or two. Could have something to do with the lots of cars you saw in Lansing.

Um... No. There is no production break for us in April. LDT (Lansing Delta Township) has no scheduled down time in the foreseeable future, we actually have more Saturdays scheduled for April. The stockpiled vehicles in the lots are our crossovers we build at LDT and not the LGR Cadillac models. LGR (Lansing Grand River) may have some down time coming but that's the norm for them anymore.

Hey Conrail Mike, I'm not sure what to say to respond to you but I \don't have any reason to think these guys are telling me wrong information. One is a really good friend of mine and the other is my father in law. Non union salaried types too. Yes one of them does work at LGR so that probably explains the time off comment from him. Either way, I'm not sure if this is related to the "Autorack Shortage?" or not. I just thought it was a tidbit that was interesting and might tie in with the topic.

I'm glad to hear that things are going well and you are keeping busy at LDT. I hope it continues; at least up to the point where the employees aren't stretched too thin. That makes things miserable when you start losing large parts of your personal and family time. Thanks for the post and the updates.

Cheers

Mike, we are talking 2 different things. You make CROSSOVERS and my BorgWarner plant makes 4x4 and TRUCK parts. TRUCKS, are going to be decreasing, although it was announced today the company won the bid for the new Toyota Tundra 4 speed. More work for me

[Mike H]

I would say there is for sure an autorack shortage, but not due to lack of maintenance or fleet replacement. CN actually set TTX up with a new facility in Flat Rock just to do repair work on autoracks in Michigan, but mainly for the Detroit market. Pontiac Yard has over 10,000 feet of autoracks waiting to go into the TTX shops in Waterford & those just recently showed up.

Crude oil has nothing to do with major congestion or railcar shortages unless your talking about companies wanting to lease tank cars. I really wish people would stop pointing the finger at crude oil because customers are asking me on a regular basis if crude oil is the reason for their problem. Crude oil for most railroads makes up less than 2% of their traffic & unless you in the heart of the oil patch don't really notice an additional train or two of crude oil. The real issue is simply the weather. Every single class 1 has impacted by the weather & transit times suffered causing extra dwell, which lead to congestion. So most cars are taking 10 to 20% longer to make their normal round trio which is the same as parking 10 to 20% of the fleet when conditions are good. I'm sure you can understand what that does to supply & demand.

CSX & NS don't play nice with CN when it comes to supplying autoracks & since CN originates FAR more automotive traffic than it terminates that leaves a bit of a gap when it comes to car supply. CN is very dependent on UP & BNSF to supply autoracks, which both of those railroads have been struggling to do this winter. Michigan usually sees at least one & many times two autoracks trains coming off of UP or BNSF each day. Lately it has been one train every few days which is significantly less than the demand. CN has been looking to add cars to the fleet, but I am not sure if that has happened yet or not.

I hope that clears up the speculation.

Mike H

[CSX_CO]

Crude oil has nothing to do with major congestion or railcar shortages unless your talking about companies wanting to lease tank cars.

You're right in so far as car type. You are incorrect on it causing "congestion". It is sapping crew bases with the almost overnight explosion of traffic. Other traffic sits to move the 'hot' oil trains. Traffic sits clogging up terminals and mainlines, and that adds to the issue. That's where it causes problems. That is the argument of shippers out in the Dakotas right now. BNSF is putting so much focus on running the oil trains, the grain trains are sitting for extended periods of time. But...lack of crews is to cause for that. So, you can't say that all the oil traffic doesn't have an impact on operations. Yes, winter is a big cause of the congestion, but train priority does affect it too.

Practice Safe CSX

[hoborich]

I heard auto sales were down, because of the hard winter weather. People weren't getting out and shopping. Supposed to pickup in the spring. Dealer lots may have been full all winter.

[Typhoon]

CSX & NS don't play nice with CN when it comes to supplying autoracks

Good. The CN is one of the most difficult, nastiest, dirty pool playing railroads that I have ever dealt with. If another railroad is giving the CN the shaft, all I have to say is karma is a bi***.

[hoborich]

You might want to keep that in mind.