The discussion below begs the question...

[TSB]

If your neighbor (the one that is not your friend) came home one day and parked his car
in the middle of your front yard, how would you feel? What if the rest of your neighborhood,
seeing his action, began parking their second cars in your yard? What if they even blocked
access to your stairs or doors?

Would you take some sort of action?

When they claim that there is no specific law that bars parking in YOUR yard, do you accept
their claimed privilege to be there?

[Tom]

Is your front yard a parking lot? If so they can park there. Are they parking on your front lawn? If so I would have the very first car towed, and all others that parked there.

If there is an easement or common area in front of your house for parking I think you're SOL. My policy is that anything on my deeded property is mine.

Post a pic of this parking situation. That would help.

[J T]

I have a feeling Raildude's dad will have a good response to the question.

[trnwatcher]

Do like we do at our condo complex. We sticker the car with a "24 hr move or be towed" warning. If the car is not moved in 24 hours....we tow it. If it is parked illegally on private property the tow and impound cost are paid by the car owner at the time they get their car out of impound.

PS: You can also call your local law enforcement and claim it's abandoned. It they see it's been sititng there more than 72 hours they will tow. They can also run the plates to see who it's registered to.

[Raildudes dad]

I am of the opinion that the use of the term "railroad right of way' implies public property to many people. The other common term that folks are familiar with is "highway right of way" which is public property. To me, regular use of "railroad property" would reinforce the private ownership. Then again, there are a number of folks that just don't care if it's private.

[Tom]

Highway right of way is public use for the purpose of driving only. You can't do anything but drive on it. Note that right of way extends past the driven portion, and the road authority can remove trees or signs within the right of way without permission - usually 33 or 66 feet either side of the centerline of the road.

The curb in front of your house is not private parking in most cases. Even the last 15' or more of your lawn may be in the public right of way. Check before having a car towed, or it could end badly for you.

Railroad right of way is for the use of the railroad only, and can extend 50' or more from track centerline. I don't think railroads should waste brake lining on cars that are parked too close to the tracks. Just smoke 'em and keep rolling.

[Norm]

If your neighbor (the one that is not your friend) came home one day and parked his car
in the middle of your front yard, how would you feel? What if the rest of your neighborhood,
seeing his action, began parking their second cars in your yard? What if they even blocked
access to your stairs or doors?

Would you take some sort of action?

When they claim that there is no specific law that bars parking in YOUR yard, do you accept
their claimed privilege to be there?

Mr TSB,

I find your question open to a lot of interesting variables. Was he drunk when he parked there of was he just being an @? If the latter, I would likely get the law involved just to see how he reacts with them. Could be fun to watch him being cuffed and placed in the back seat of a patrol car. The uncooperative don't get very far with the deputies I know.

In today's litigious society I sure can see the railroad's point of view. They are trespassing on private property and should have no right of recourse if their vehicle gets damaged by a train that can't stop.

[Raildudes dad]

Highway right of way is public use for the purpose of driving only. You can't do anything but drive on it. Note that right of way extends past the driven portion, and the road authority can remove trees or signs within the right of way without permission - usually 33 or 66 feet either side of the centerline of the road.

The curb in front of your house is not private parking in most cases. Even the last 15' or more of your lawn may be in the public right of way. Check before having a car towed, or it could end badly for you.

Railroad right of way is for the use of the railroad only, and can extend 50' or more from track centerline. I don't think railroads should waste brake lining on cars that are parked too close to the tracks. Just smoke 'em and keep rolling.

The highway right of way is for more than just driving. Blue Cross Blue Shield of MI vs Ingham County Road Commission went all the way to the State Supreme Court. The Supreme Court upheld the Road Commission right to issue permits for other uses in the ROW. In this case it was the installation of a sanitary sewer. Usual permitted activities are sidewalks and publicly regulated utilities ie water, gas, electric and cable.

Statutory highway right of way is 33' either side of section line or the center of the highway if not a section line road. Most subdivisions are 66' dedicated right of way. Do NOT assume 66' , it may be 50, 60, 66, 86, 100 or 120 or combinations of, ie 33 feet on one side. 50 on the other depending on the roadway and if the road authority has acquired more right of way.

Most RR right of ways are 100 but don't assume that either. I know of a couple areas locally where it's only 25 and 50. Don't assume it's split 50-50 either. The GT from Durand to Grand Haven was 60 north, 40 south. (To provide for a second main line no less ). I had a very upset lady on my trail project when the survey crew staked the trail location on her "south" 10 feet. Her surveyor had assumed 50 feet from center line for the RR ROW .

[TSB]

Funny you should mention that Norm. About twenty five years ago, I looked out early one
morning and saw a car parked in one of the side sections of my lawn. I went down and banged
on the window but the drunk inside wouldn't wake up. I had to leave within an hour so I called
the sheriff. The deputys got him awake and asked what I wanted done with him since he was
on my property. I said "it would be nice if he could get home." They drove him home. Not far from
my place. Turns out it was the father of one of my daughters friends. Our famlies became better
friends after his embarrasment wore off.

[chapmaja]

There is actually a legal term that is in play in this discussion. I can't remember the term however.

The idea is simply that if you own private property, but contiually and knowingly allowing public use of your property, that use becomes legal use of your property.

My grandmother was forced to put a fence on her property one year because people kept using a path to access a park behind her house. Had she not put the fence up, the path would have become legally public use and she later could not stop people from using the path.

[tadman]

It's called an "easement". You can either formally acquire an easement by having a contract between the property owner and the trespasser or adversely acquire them (as in the above case) by openly trespassing in a continuous manner over a span of years (usually fifteen).

These are helpful, for example, when you own two lots, one not on a road, but you wish to sell the back lot. The buyer wants to build a home there, but has no access to the road. You give him an easement so he can put a driveway across your land. The buyer cannot park things there, nor build things there, only drive across the driveway for access to his new home. The easement has made your back lot much more saleable.

They can also be harmful. If they're acquired adversely, and someone gets hurt on your land, you may be liable. That's why it's better to either get things in writing or attempt to stop the trespassing.

[chapmaja]

It's called an "easement". You can either formally acquire an easement by having a contract between the property owner and the trespasser or adversely acquire them (as in the above case) by openly trespassing in a continuous manner over a span of years (usually fifteen).

These are helpful, for example, when you own two lots, one not on a road, but you wish to sell the back lot. The buyer wants to build a home there, but has no access to the road. You give him an easement so he can put a driveway across your land. The buyer cannot park things there, nor build things there, only drive across the driveway for access to his new home. The easement has made your back lot much more saleable.

They can also be harmful. If they're acquired adversely, and someone gets hurt on your land, you may be liable. That's why it's better to either get things in writing or attempt to stop the trespassing.

The term I was thinking of was adverse possession. Thanks.

[Tom]

The highway right of way is for more than just driving. Blue Cross Blue Shield of MI vs Ingham County Road Commission went all the way to the State Supreme Court. The Supreme Court upheld the Road Commission right to issue permits for other uses in the ROW. In this case it was the installation of a sanitary sewer. Usual permitted activities are sidewalks and publicly regulated utilities ie water, gas, electric and cable.

.

Correct. But my neighbor used to get uset when I requested he remove his unsupervised kids from my lawn. He showed me where the public easement (for utilities etc) extended past the sidewalk almost to my porch and said he could have picnic on my lawn if he wanted to. I just laughed and suggested he not try it. He didn't. This is the same guy who let his kids playin the street and yelled at every car that went by for driving "too fast".

Read your deed carefully when buying property. That "little 15' wide driveway" can really be a 66' wide easement with powerlines and later be deeded to the county as a road. Make sure you don't get stuck with it.

[Raildudes dad]

Correct. But my neighbor used to get uset when I requested he remove his unsupervised kids from my lawn. He showed me where the public easement (for utilities etc) extended past the sidewalk almost to my porch and said he could have picnic on my lawn if he wanted to. I just laughed and suggested he not try it. He didn't. This is the same guy who let his kids playin the street and yelled at every car that went by for driving "too fast".

Read your deed carefully when buying property. That "little 15' wide driveway" can really be a 66' wide easement with powerlines and later be deeded to the county as a road. Make sure you don't get stuck with it.

I had that discussion with my neighbor to the rear that let her kids cut through my property on the sanitary sewer / storm sewer easement. I read the easement language to her and told her that until her kids used the pipes to get thru my property , they were trespassing and I would do something about it. They decided to use the sidewalk a half block over

Not only do you need to read your deed but a title search (more than the standard 40 years) is important. If the property is in a plat, you need to read the plat dedications as well. Easements do not necessarily show up in a deed.

I had a lady complain because when it rained, her entire backyard had 3 feet of water in it. Seems my employer had an easement over the entire backyard for storm water detention. (The easement was acquired prior to the house being built). I asked her if she had a title search when she purchased it. The answer was no, she bought it on a land contract. A couple years later, same complaint, new owner. I asked that person if they bought it on a land contract, the answer was yes

[Robert MacDowell]

There is actually a legal term that is in play in this discussion. I can't remember the term however.

The idea is simply that if you own private property, but contiually and knowingly allowing public use of your property, that use becomes legal use of your property.

"Prescriptive easement" is the phrase you're looking for. They openly use your property, without permission, continuously and for a good long time (20 years?) and you don't stop it. Then, they have the option to go to court, and ask the judge to give them a prescriptive easement.

Its big brother is called "adverse possession", in which they outright take your property. This requires all of the above, and also you are not using the property. So if you're using it, that can't happen.

These techniques don't work on railroads. The reasoning is that railroads have eminent domain, and could simply take the property back.

The only way to beat eminent domain is convince the Surface Transportation Board to do "adverse abandonment" on the railroad. The town of Creede, Colorado did exactly that. The property lines were all messed up, and the back half of every building in downtown was on railroad property, along with a city park. The whole point of adverse possession is to clean up messes like that. But, doesn't work on railroads, so it festered for a century. When Rio Grande and SP merged, Southern Pacific lawyers stormed into town and tried to bully a resolution, and got nowhere. Then Union Pacific lawyers stormed into town trying to bully a resolution, and got nowhere. Well, this little railroad museum bought the line, and decided they were better than SP and UP at bullying. They were not.

[TSB]

Our work is done here.