NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extension

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NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extension

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South Shore officials give residents view of West Lake extension

September 12, 2015 7:00 pm • Andrew Steele andrew.steele@nwi.com, (219) 933-3241
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/south-shor ... 99f0b.html

DYER | The South Shore commuter railroad extension from Hammond to Dyer took more realistic form for town officials and residents who gathered Thursday evening for a presentation by Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District officials.

NICTD is exploring a variety of options for stations, maintenance facilities and related infrastructure along the 9-mile route. The presentation included a rendering and diagrams of the extension's potential impact at the Dyer-Munster line where Main Street ends at Columbia-Sheffield.

There are two possibilities for the line's Dyer-Munster terminus: one includes a "layover yard" with the station, the other adds a full maintenance facility.

All options are being included in a draft environmental impact statement being prepared now.

"We want to environmentally clear as much as possible," said Paulette Vander Kamp, a NICTD consultant who led the presentation. "This is a very conceptual design level."

The layover yard would be south of an extended Main Street, and would include a building and parking lot. The yard would be used for overnight parking of trains, along with interior cleaning and light maintenance work.

The station itself would be north of Main, at the track-side edge of a parking lot of up to 1,200 spaces. The lot would extend north to Lucy Lane, remaining west of Megan Way, according to the NICTD graphic.

The second option has a significantly larger footprint. The maintenance yard would straddle Main Street, taking up much of the triangle formed by Sheffield Avenue, the railroad tracks and an extended Main Street. The tracks from the maintenance yard would extend north of Main before merging into a single track near Lucy Lane.

That would shift the station and parking lot north, with the lot extending up to Hartsfield Village retirement community in Munster.

The amount of private property NICTD will need to buy will only be known once a final plan is established.

"The reality is, at some point there will be some property taking," NICTD General Manager Michael Noland acknowledged.

Audience members peppered the NICTD representatives with questions regarding the extent of the physical infrastructure, increased traffic and the impact on the community and property values.

"We don't want a maintenance facility," Councilwoman Debbie Astor, R-5th, said, echoing the opinion of several residents concerned about the impact on the community.

"To do this railroad line extension, we need to do a maintenance facility somewhere that works for the railroad," Noland said.

Two sites in Hammond are also under consideration for the maintenance facility.

"Some people will want it in one place, some in another," Noland said. "We have to clear multiple options (environmentally)."

The station itself will bring economic activity, an increased demand for housing, and a subsequent increase in property values, he argued.

"It is my experience that a commuter rail station is a tremendous asset to a community," Noland said.

He said NICTD would need to work with local communities regarding traffic, lighting of the facilities, and management of the surrounding areas.

Once operational, 12 trains would travel on the West Lake Corridor each weekday, six heading into Chicago in the morning hours and six returning in the afternoon and evening. Four stations would serve the line: two in Hammond, one in Munster and one at the Munster-Dyer line.

The Munster station likely would be at Ridge Road and Manor Street, with another option near 45th and Fisher streets.

If the Ridge Road location is chosen, the station and parking would be on the east side of Manor if it's south of Ridge, and on the west side of Manor if it's north of Ridge.

The federal government and local sources will split the $571 million cost of the project. The Indiana General Assembly approved a funding package earlier this year, and a number of communities have pledged to add to the local contribution.

NICTD is anticipating 5,600 passengers on the new line daily, about half of them existing riders who shift from existing stations.

The draft environmental impact statement will be the subject of a public hearing in November. NICTD's schedule shows project development beginning in 2016, engineering in 2018, and construction in 2020. The rail line would be ready for use at the start of 2023, according to the plan.

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justalurker66
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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by justalurker66 »

For more information make sure you follow the link to the article. NWI Times has a PDF of the presentation on their website including diagrams of the described layout.

Thanks for sharing!

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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by GaryIndianaRailFan »

I looked at the trains depicted in the rendering in the PDF (link here) http://www.nictdwestlake.com/pdf/nictd- ... 091015.pdf.

Are those really the type of trains they are going to use for West Lake Corridor? If so, are they Nippon Sharyo models?
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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by justalurker66 »

GaryIndianaRailFan wrote:I looked at the trains depicted in the rendering in the PDF (link here) http://www.nictdwestlake.com/pdf/nictd- ... 091015.pdf.

Are those really the type of trains they are going to use for West Lake Corridor? If so, are they Nippon Sharyo models?
The cars shown are the current NICTD trains. NICTD plans on replacing the single level trains with bi-levels for their South Shore Line as well as using them on the West Lake Line. All of the current and planned cars are Nippon Sharyo (now being built in Illinois).

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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by GaryIndianaRailFan »

justalurker66 wrote: The cars shown are the current NICTD trains. NICTD plans on replacing the single level trains with bi-levels for their South Shore Line as well as using them on the West Lake Line. All of the current and planned cars are Nippon Sharyo (now being built in Illinois).
Yes I know. I was looking at the rendering and the lead units on the trains are electric locomotives. I guess a better way to ask my question is: Is the line planning on using electric locomotives on West Lake Corridor instead of the normal motor unit operation in use now on the original main line?

ALSO

I read in the paper that NICTD is prepared to spend just shy of $80 million to install a Positive Train Control system on the line and have it ready by December 31st, 2015, a deadline mandated by the US Congress. In retrospect METRA's cost is $350 million. I don't know if they'd meet that deadline or not but the cost is considerable... It's going to cost around $570 million (I think) to build an entirely new West Lake Corridor. I also read that NICTD and at least one member of a Porter County board were worried about PTC effecting NICTD's capability to upgrade the single-level 30+ year old EMU's that run currently along the main line. This is a lot of money being thrown around, but I'm more interested in the PTC issue effecting the old EMU upgrade.
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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by justalurker66 »

GaryIndianaRailFan wrote: Is the line planning on using electric locomotives on West Lake Corridor instead of the normal motor unit operation in use now on the original main line?
The final decision has not been made. The preference (as noted in my previous post) is for EMU bi-levels similar to the current 300 series cars. That choice would require electrifying a short segment of the CSX line or running their own track on or next to the CSX ROW.

I would not take the rendering as gospel for motive power selection. They do not have the tracks connected in that rendering (an obvious flaw). The trains on the render are for illustrative purposes to show where they would be stored.

GaryIndianaRailFan wrote: I read in the paper that NICTD is prepared to spend just shy of $80 million to install a Positive Train Control system on the line and have it ready by December 31st, 2015, a deadline mandated by the US Congress. In retrospect METRA's cost is $350 million. I don't know if they'd meet that deadline or not but the cost is considerable... It's going to cost around $570 million (I think) to build an entirely new West Lake Corridor. I also read that NICTD and at least one member of a Porter County board were worried about PTC effecting NICTD's capability to upgrade the single-level 30+ year old EMU's that run currently along the main line. This is a lot of money being thrown around, but I'm more interested in the PTC issue effecting the old EMU upgrade.
What does the cost of the West Lake Corridor have to do with the cost of PTC? Please, pick a topic and stop jumping around. Without references it is hard to know what you read, who said it and what you are talking about.

At this point PTC is not an option - it is a requirement with a deadline. I hope that by the end of the year there will be an extension of the deadline and NICTD will not need to pull the money off of other projects.

The CTC upgrade a few years ago put NICTD ahead of the game on PTC (where other railroads are replacing entire signalling systems NICTD has compatible signals in place). But "can't operate after December 31st" is a big threat. I hope that is a threat that goes away.

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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by GaryIndianaRailFan »

Here's my reference. It briefly hits on PTC effecting the EMU upgrades towards the end of the article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/p ... story.html

justalurker66 wrote:
What does the cost of the West Lake Corridor have to do with the cost of PTC? Please, pick a topic and stop jumping around.
As to your question I apologize for seeking answers about two different topics.
“...what thrills me about trains is not their size or their equipment but the fact that they are moving, that they embody a connection between unseen places.”
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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

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GaryIndianaRailFan wrote:Here's my reference. It briefly hits on PTC effecting the EMU upgrades towards the end of the article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/p ... story.html
NICTD board member Mark Yagelski, a LaPorte County councilman, said spending millions on PTC will prevent the railroad from investing in new cars.
"Our cars were built in the '80s. We've already recycled parts, and at some point we're going to have to buy cars. This bond issue will take away from our future investments to keep the railroad going."
Thank you for the link ... and I agree with the assessment. Spending money on PTC takes away from spending money on other projects. Not that the other projects were funded and are losing their funding - but PTC jumped to the front of the line because of the congressional mandate.

One could write a scathing rebuke of NICTD for not meeting the deadline ... but it does not appear any major system will meet the deadline. Amtrak has issued their own threat of shutdown if the deadline is not extended. It is a national problem, not just NICTD's problem.

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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

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justalurker66 wrote:One could write a scathing rebuke of NICTD for not meeting the deadline ...
Only if one is trying to apply logic to government regulations, an application that almost universally fails. :mrgreen:

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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by dinwitty »

the plan is to use hybrid electric/diesel engines, I'd rather they fully electrify keeping everything compatible, the issue may be cost to electrify, but maybe the decision isnt fully made yet.

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Given that there is no DC/Diesel dual mode on the market these days, that might be tough. I'm glad to see there is at least some bias toward straight electric operation.

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tadman wrote:Given that there is no DC/Diesel dual mode on the market these days, that might be tough. I'm glad to see there is at least some bias toward straight electric operation.
While there are not DC-Diesel, there are AC-Diesel dual mode locomotives on the market in the US such as the ALP-45DP. As well as DC-Diesel locomotives in production elsewhere in the world; Vossloh for instance has a few, including a switcher.

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Re: NICTD officials give residents view of West Lake extensi

Unread post by LakeATCS »

PerRock wrote:
tadman wrote:Given that there is no DC/Diesel dual mode on the market these days, that might be tough. I'm glad to see there is at least some bias toward straight electric operation.
While there are not DC-Diesel, there are AC-Diesel dual mode locomotives on the market in the US such as the ALP-45DP. As well as DC-Diesel locomotives in production elsewhere in the world; Vossloh for instance has a few, including a switcher.

peter
And those are MUCH more complex then DC Diesel dual mode. On a DC you don't need a massive frame hogging transfomer.

Designs could be easily adapted from the New york area third rail locomotives, and MTA is rumored to be shopping for new locomotives anyway.

The diesel electric makes DC power anyway. Which is then fed thru inverters to feed the AC traction motors. All you need to do is feed the overhead DC voltage into the inverters.

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