Really random symbol question

[Shorthaul]

I have been going over my videos from Deshler, and have stumbled across a certain train that interests me. It ran in the dead of night, and consisted of single stack containers and autoracks. It came from the east, and turned south towards cincy. Almost all of the containers were Hamburg Sud 40&20 footers. It looks like it might run from the east coast to the south, full of european goods and cars. Any ideas about which train this could be?

[Mr. Tops]

Q231 from Detroit. Only train I can think of that has containers and racks and goes W-S at Deshler. Most stuff that goes from the east coast to the south will take the ex-CR from Greenwich through Marion and then south at Sidney as it is shorter. But...I don't live near Deshler so I can only speak of prior knowledge. They may have moved the intermodal to Q241 now that it has been reinstated, which is the only other rack train that goes W-S at Deshler. Both trains go to Louisville. I will let one of the Corn City folk confirm my beliefs.

[Shorthaul]

Q231 from Detroit. Only train I can think of that has containers, racks and goes W-S at Deshler. Most stuff that goes from the east coast to the south will take the ex-CR from Greenwich through Marion and then south at Sidney as it is shorter.

Why would that go W-S? Isnt it due south from detroit? Why would they come from the west?

[Mr. Tops]

Q231 from Detroit. Only train I can think of that has containers, racks and goes W-S at Deshler. Most stuff that goes from the east coast to the south will take the ex-CR from Greenwich through Marion and then south at Sidney as it is shorter.

Why would that go W-S? Isnt it due south from detroit? Why would they come from the west?

Yeah, west from Detroit to Plymouth, south from Plymouth to Walbridge, south from Walbridge to Fostoria, then heads west at Fostoria to Deshler and then turns south at Deshler for Cincy/Louisville. "W-S" does not mean it comes from the west, it means it's westbound to southbound. The only trains that goes strain N/S through Deshler on the Toledo Sub are Stanley freights (ie Q506/Q507) and dock trains (ie K185). Also grain from Tontogany and of course D743 from Lima.

[Shorthaul]

Q231 from Detroit. Only train I can think of that has containers, racks and goes W-S at Deshler. Most stuff that goes from the east coast to the south will take the ex-CR from Greenwich through Marion and then south at Sidney as it is shorter.

Why would that go W-S? Isnt it due south from detroit? Why would they come from the west?

Yeah, west from Detroit to Plymouth, south from Plymouth to Walbridge, south from Walbridge to Fostoria, then heads west at Fostoria to Deshler and then turns south at Deshler for Cincy/Louisville. "W-S" does not mean it comes from the west, it means it's westbound to southbound. The only trains that goes strain N/S through Deshler on the Toledo Sub are Stanley freights (ie Q506/Q507) and dock trains (ie K185). Also grain from Tontogany and of course D743 from Lima.

Forgot about that routing. How stupid of me. Although, I guess this whole post was kinda stupid.

[Mr. Tops]

Not a stupid post...that's what the board is here for. If you have a question, ASK! Now a post stating that a post is stupid...that is a stupid post!

[rwtrave]

Since we're on the subject of Deshler trains now, I have a quick question. Does the Q324 still run from E to N? If not, then what still uses the NW Connection? I'd imagine Q324 still does run though.

[conrailfan]

Yep it still runs E-N. The Q509 and the T927 run S-W. Thats all I know that take that connection.

[Y@]

As already stated, it is most likely Q231, but could also be Q241 depending on how old these videos are.

Yes, Q324 still runs. It has become the "replacement" for Q508. 324 now works the yard in Defiance and takes those cars (along with the ones from Chicago and Garrett) to Toledo.

[StupidFlee​t]

The general rule of thumb that I use is that most trains that go Cincinnati-Stanley (and vice versa) use the Toledo Sub north of Deshler and Cincinnati-Walbridge (and vise versa) use the Willard Sub between East Deshler and Fostoria and the Pemberville Sub north (railroad west) of Fostoria.

Q506/Q507 and the former Q516/Q517 is a good example of this.


There are always exceptions to the rule, but in the past few years I've hung out in Deshler, that's basically how they have run.

[Mr. Tops]

As already stated, it is most likely Q231, but could also be Q241 depending on how old these videos are.

Yes, Q324 still runs. It has become the "replacement" for Q508. 324 now works the yard in Defiance and takes those cars (along with the ones from Chicago and Garrett) to Toledo.

The old Q241 I remeber was always empty frame flats, autoparts boxes and some racks. Q242 was the same except with loaded frame flats. Don't ever remember it haveing intermodal but I haven't seen it since it's been reinstated so I dunno. And the old Q241/Q242 usually ran the Toledo Sub all the way, as did Q245. Q200 and Q209 were straight through E/W (Chicago-Toledo); Q200 always had freight from Chicago/IHB Blue Island headed for Toledo. That is the culprit for Q324 replacing Q508 because Q324 now handles the traffic out of Chicago for Toledo that Q200 used to. Q246 was also straight through westbound from Marysville, OH-IHB Gibson. Q247 was the opposite but ran less regularly. Q210 (Greenwood, SC-Walbridge), Q219 (Willard-cincy -- Now Q339), Q231 (Detroit-Louisville -- Still runs), Q243 (Walbridge-Louisville), Q266 (Louisville-Walbridge) and Q272 (Louisville-Detroit -- Still runs) were all users of the SE transfer back in the day...er...a few years ago. There were others that ran less-often as well, those are just the ones that ran regularly; and as dti407 said, there are always exceptions to the rule.

[MSchwiebert]

According to a recent post on Trainorders, Q231 will operate via Bates if it is under 8000 feet in length coming into Toledo. If it's longer than that, it gets split at Walbridge (don't remember what train picks up the "overage" though) This seems to match with what I see when I see a 231 go by the house. Sometimes it has containers on the front, sometimes it doesn't. As for the frames that used to come up on 242, they now come into Toledo on Q506. I had not heard about Q324 taking over the work that 508 used to do, but in some respects this makes sense. If that is the case, then you would have 324 and 509 as the manifest freights that use the NW transfer in Deshler. There are also the PRB coal trains (usually empties operate via Bates and loads go via Fostoria as they can hold them in Walbridge yard if need be) and Ballast extras to/from the Toledo Docks.

In addition to the 506, 507 etc. that operate on the Toledo Sub North of Deshler, the K185 ore trains have been running nearly daily lately.

[bnsfben]

Since we're on the subject of Deshler trains now, I have a quick question. Does the Q324 still run from E to N? If not, then what still uses the NW Connection? I'd imagine Q324 still does run though.

Do you mean eastbound or the train comes from the east?

[MSchwiebert]

Q324 is eastbound into Deshler, takes the NW transfer and becomes a Northbound going to Toledo. There's no NE Transfer at Deshler, in B&O days, those moves were accomodated by the Bowling Green Subdivision (left the E/W main at North Baltimore and connected to the Toledo Sub at Tontogany), which became redundant after the B&O/C&O consolidation of operations and was abandoned in the 1970's with the Bowling Green/North Baltimore portion becoming the basis for the Slippery Elm hike/bike trail.

Since we're on the subject of Deshler trains now, I have a quick question. Does the Q324 still run from E to N? If not, then what still uses the NW Connection? I'd imagine Q324 still does run though.

Do you mean eastbound or the train comes from the east?

[bnsfben]

OK thanks for the info. I have never ever seen a train go on the NW wye at Deshler and I have been there about six times. But never during the deep night hours. The latest I stayed at Deshler was around 8 PM. That will change once I get a car!

[CSX_CO]

Q324 was a Barr to Toledo Train. Q508 was a Garrett to Toledo train. As part of the "One Plan" none of the traffic Garrett originated went anywhere but Toledo. That's why Q508 would be plenty big when SDI was running heavy, and there was plenty of GM traffic to/from Defiance. With the downturn in the economy, Garrett isn't producing the freight it once was (3 locals cut to 2), and I'm sure GM and SDI are WAY down from their previous highs. Hence, Q324 can make a pickup of whatever traffic Garrett originates while setting off the Garrett inbound traffic, and not have to set off the Defiance Cars, saving a day on their transit time.

Practice Safe CSX

[Mr. Tops]

Q324 was a Barr to Toledo Train. Q508 was a Garrett to Toledo train. As part of the "One Plan" none of the traffic Garrett originated went anywhere but Toledo. That's why Q508 would be plenty big when SDI was running heavy, and there was plenty of GM traffic to/from Defiance. With the downturn in the economy, Garrett isn't producing the freight it once was (3 locals cut to 2), and I'm sure GM and SDI are WAY down from their previous highs. Hence, Q324 can make a pickup of whatever traffic Garrett originates while setting off the Garrett inbound traffic, and not have to set off the Defiance Cars, saving a day on their transit time.

Practice Safe CSX

Speaking of Garrett locals (you may or may not know the answer to this CSX_CO - I know your in Indy now) but I remember about 10 years ago CSX ran a J7-something from Garrett to Toledo via Deshler/Bates. I'm not sure if it was in addition to 508 or what, but it looked just like it -- sand, scrap, etc. J715? J716? Ah, I can't remember. I think 715 and 716 are the Garrett locals now and were back then too. J713 maybe?

Anyhow, I recently heard that there was a J717 that ran from Garrett to Ft. Wayne via NS at St. Joe. I thought that was quite odd and had a hard time believing it, but when I finished with my interview at Piqua Yard, I walked out and there was a pair of CSX engines sitting there! Heck, I don't know. Does anyone else know?

[TrainWatcher]

Q231? Containers? Where do these some from? Out of Detroit she's either All racks or She has a few Auto Parts boxes upfront. I have records for around 4 months since I worked night shift at Ford and watched her pass between 11p and 12a

[Mr. Tops]

Q231? Containers? Where do these some from? Out of Detroit she's either All racks or She has a few Auto Parts boxes upfront. I have records for around 4 months since I worked night shift at Ford and watched her pass between 11p and 12a

What? A train can pickup and setoff cars enroute!? That is AMAZING!!

[TrainWatcher]

It was a question of if the containers came out of Walbridge, and the answer is Yes. Thanks Bob.