ATSF to return to the rails

[Mr. Tops]

You guys are rediculous. Get the fark out of here and do something useful with your lives. Go buy yourselves a god darn locomotive and paint it. I'm sick and tired of reading your "expert opinions" on here. Other than a few minor details that would involve major body work, ie, removing the plow, ditch lights, etc., the paint job looks fine. Could have used the original font on the number boards, but they look good, none-the-less. Unless your in a position to do something about it, what's the point of bickering and whining about it? It's not going to change, so move on.

[CharlieX90]

James.....You seriously are gonna throw a fit over the paint job? Jesus, you have mental problems on so many levels.


Bob hit the nail on the head with his post.

[TrainWatcher]

James.....You seriously are gonna throw a fit over the paint job? Jesus, you have mental problems on so many levels.


Bob hit the nail on the head with his post.

Charlie knowing me as long as you do know dang well I am

[Y@]

Holy freakin' lord... This is the first time James has gone far enough out of his own little world that I've actually been left speechless. I seriously can't come up with any response, except...

BTW, how are you a "brakeman in training" when the place you "work" is all volunteer? Why don't you take that "training" to NS or CSX, hell even the I&O, and see if they hire you.

Nothing to do with Santa Fe F's. Whatever.

[Y@]

You guys are rediculous. Get the fark out of here and do something useful with your lives. Go buy yourselves a god darn locomotive and paint it. I'm sick and tired of reading your "expert opinions" on here. Other than a few minor details that would involve major body work, ie, removing the plow, ditch lights, etc., the paint job looks fine. Could have used the original font on the number boards, but they look good, none-the-less. Unless your in a position to do something about it, what's the point of bickering and whining about it? It's not going to change, so move on.

This = Win.

[TrainWatcher]

Holy freakin' lord... This is the first time James has gone far enough out of his own little world that I've actually been left speechless. I seriously can't come up with any response, except...

BTW, how are you a "brakeman in training" when the place you "work" is all volunteer? Why don't you take that "training" to NS or CSX, hell even the I&O, and see if they hire you.

Nothing to do with Santa Fe F's. Whatever.

Because you do need training to actually work on trains Y@. And since I have had such horrible luck I am going to volunteer my time to SMRS and learn a few things.

[SD80MAC]

I happen to think they look fine. Obviously the stainless steel sides like on real ATSF F units would be hard to replicate, so they just went with silver paint. They were not made to simulate real Santa Fe units, just look kind of like them. But a "slap in the face to ATSF fans and employees"? Encouraging others not to support the museum? You're off your rocker.

[Racer]

Personally I like how they look, so what if it's not the original heritage, ABRX 725 (Star Clipper) in it's EL paint is actually a BL&E unit so am I going to hate it? No. These ATSF F-units look more modernized and actually prefer them over the original. Better than no ATSF units at all. Also, the new one reminds me of the Legos edition.

[Saturnalia]

If you nay-sayers paid for it they might correct the "incorrect" bits and get some stainless steel up there

[CSX_CO]

You guys jump all over James' for his opinion, but looking at the shot at RP, James is not in the minority with his opinion.

I think the nose looks too 'busy'. Too much crap up there. At the very least, move the horn back on the car body. I can't imagine how bad the cab rattles with that monster 5 chime up there. Windshields back looks pretty hot though...

Practice Safe CSX

[GreatLakesRailfan]

"REAL":


"FREE-LANCED":


[TrainWatcher]
PLEASE.... Tell me that you can tell the differences between the REAL ATSF 347C (California State) Versus the fake...

Aside from the ditchlights and a couple of cosmetic differences (like the black hole on the nose), I think they look a lot alike. Now, I may not care much for the Warbonnet paint scheme overall (although it's far more interesting than that of just about any steam engine), but I think they did a pretty good job with it.

James, would you rather see a PC paint scheme on these units (black with small white letters), or perhaps an early Conrail paint scheme (blue with black undersides and small CONRAIL letters)? Perhaps the owners of the units would have preferred a coat of solid purple be applied to the units instead. That would have been pretty cool to see as well. Much cooler than any AT&SF paint scheme has ever been and ever will be, but they choose to apply the Warbonnet paint scheme and they did a pretty good job with it. Depending on the quality of the paint, it may even hold up better than your so-called "real" units paint/steel appearance will in the long run, and even if it doesn't, it still looks pretty darn sharp. At the very least, you have people who actually care enough for that scheme to make an effort to reproduce it and operate using it.

The criticisms aimed at the heritage of the unit are more irritating than anything else. Yes, one (both?) of the units may have been purchased by the SP, and one may have been significant in the SSW history, but (outside of person opinion, of which everyone is entitled to at least one ) why in the world should that imply that either one of these units should be painted in either Black Widow or any other SP/SSW paint scheme? I get the fact that that would be really cool (and yes, I think it would be cool to see something of that vintage rolling around in an original paint scheme as well), but what gives you the right to make comments like the ones posted earlier on this thread about how far off base the OWNER(S) of the unit are? It is, after all, their unit, their investment (money) and their decision. Personally, I think a purple/green/orange version of the Warbonnet might have been a better investment, especially considering how much certain railfans (not just James and certainly not just on this site) have been quite vocal in expressing their hatred for these units, although on second thought, maybe their money would have been better spent if they simply remodeled them into a modern-day set of CF7s, complete with red/silver/yellow warbonnet paint. The railfan reaction to something like that would be better than just about any other form of entertainment available.

[MagnumForce]

The paint is fine, can't exactly fake stainless steel. All the stuff is wrong enough to just make it look ridiculous IMO. It's their locomotive, they can do whatever they want but I think the larger issue is why is are so many people obsessed with Santa Fe and the Warbonnet that they don't care how goofy it looks "By God we are going to have a Warbonnet!"

The Lettering and Geometry of the paint job do look incredibly accurate so kudos on them for that. All the Espee accoutrements just make it look so goofy up front though.

And James, as if they really care that you will never visit... I am sure they are so hurt that someone living 2000 miles away will never visit their small museum.

[MagnumForce]

Just wanted to add one more thing. This is a lot like making a hot rod, some people think they are incredibly while other people can't believe someone would destroy a classic 1934 Ford like that.

In the end it's just paint and I would rather see them well taken care of regardless of the paint than rotten and rusty like things at 95% of museums around the country.

I still think they look goofy as hell though.

[CSX_CO]

It's their locomotive, they can do whatever they want but I think the larger issue is why is are so many people obsessed with Santa Fe and the Warbonnet that they don't care how goofy it looks "By God we are going to have a Warbonnet!"

Good example of the case of 'historical restoration' and 'historical preservation'. This would be a 'restoration'. They took their engines, and made them look brand new and in a different paint. Preservation would have been making it look as 'original' as they could when delivered. To each their own. When I restore something I try and do a 'preservation'. Make it look as it would have 'as delivered'.

Practice Safe CSX

[TrainWatcher]

And I will not. I did contact California State and will be sending them some money to keep the real ones looking good and working. And thanks Russ.

And Charles they should be in SP Black Widow. Atleast show the one is a T&NO unit.

[CSX_CO]

BTW, how are you a "brakeman in training" when the place you "work" is all volunteer? Why don't you take that "training" to NS or CSX, hell even the I&O, and see if they hire you.

Y@, maybe instead of just piling on James, you should realize that most museums don't just throw anyone in an operating capacity. They at least want you to have *some* training. IRM is that way, ITM is that way, the list continues. Who cares if he's getting paid or not, still doesn't change the fact that he is 'in training' for what he is doing.

Practice Safe CSX

[sd70accsxt700]

Aside from all the clutter on the front, the paint looks good. Not sure if they run or will run, that could be the reason for all the clutter in the front.

[Raildudes dad]

BTW, how are you a "brakeman in training" when the place you "work" is all volunteer? Why don't you take that "training" to NS or CSX, hell even the I&O, and see if they hire you.

Y@, maybe instead of just piling on James, you should realize that most museums don't just throw anyone in an operating capacity. They at least want you to have *some* training. IRM is that way, ITM is that way, the list continues. Who cares if he's getting paid or not, still doesn't change the fact that he is 'in training' for what he is doing.

Practice Safe CSX

The Coopersville & Marne has had a fair number of volunteers get their initial RR "training' with them and go on to full time "real" employment with CSX, NS, CN, and RA.

[~Z~]

Saw TW had posted about this on Facebook and saw the responses there before here. Saw 20+ comments there, and hardly any were against TW's line of thinking. Hop on here, and thank goodness, some more level headed railfans prevail, thank you guys
Coopersville and Marne painted up their engine, doesn't say any of the previous Class 1 railroads on it, so I take it that's not as bad as a museum that did their take on a class 1, didn't make it exactly as TW wanted, so they can get flamed? Lolz. It's the museum's engine, they can paint as they want, and 90%+ of people that will pay to ride behind it just want a pretty engine.

[GP30M4216]

Were these locomotives being advertised as a truly authentic ATSF recreation? Historically speaking, yes, they are not correct in the way that the A-B set in California are. But to probably 90% of the people who visit this museum in Galveston, they will be close enough to the real thing to be the real thing. And without a photo of "real" ATSF F units for side-by-side comparison on the spot, many people wouldn't notice some of the generally minor differences. Here are my thoughts:

I don't care about the lack of stainless steel. I'm surprised they got away with having the horn stay where it is, given the new FRA horn placement requirements, but maybe it was grandfathered in? The SP pilot looks kind of funny, but it also changes the effect of the front, and its something kind of different that I kind of like. All of the electrical hook-ups on the front end do make it look kind of busy, but again, these are locomotives are to be functional, not just pretty. Their location does change the profile of the ATSF cross logo on the nose, which comparatively makes it looks squished, but without that comparison, you don't really notice. The numberboards do look a little chunky the way they are printed, but again, without comparison, they are ok. I think what I like least of all is whatever they decided to do with the front class lights....which are now empty holes. Not a fan.

Do these look good? Yes! If their paint holds they'll be photo backdrops and subjects for years to come in Texas. Are they authentic ATSF locomotive in truly authentic paint? No. Will this be a breaking point for most people? No. Would I be upset if I was told they were going to unveil two F units in authentic Warbonnet colors, paid money and those are what rolled out of the shop? Yes. But that's because I know what the ones in California look like.

If you want to see and support true ATSF F units, go to California. In the meantime, these will provide enjoyment to many visitors who visit Galveston. Paint is just paint. I'm generally in support of any railroad museum that wants to maintain their equipment, even if not truly authentic. They can restore them back to SP colors at any time.

And yes, the words preservation, restoration, rehabilitation, reconstruction, etc. do have different meanings. My professional background requires that I know the difference, as applied to historic buildings. They can be similarly applied to many pieces, types, and uses of railroad equipment: http://www.nps.gov/hps/tps/standguide/o ... _treat.htm